40. HOLLY JAMES: Celebrity romance novels, broken toes, and balancing multiple publishers

Holly James is beloved by the LiterarHype team and I could not be more excited to have her back for a third round. Her third book, "Name Your Price" is available now, plus she's got two more books on the way! This conversation covers a lot of ground, from breaking her toe to balancing working with three different publishers, plus, what it's like being married to a weightlifter.

FOLLOW HOLLY

BUY THE BOOKS (Bookshop):
Name Your Price
The Big Fix
Last Night Was Fun
The Deja Glitch
Nothing But The Truth

BUY THE BOOKS (Amazon):
Name Your Price
The Big Fix
Last Night Was Fun
The Deja Glitch
Nothing But The Truth

BUY THE BOOKS (LibroFM):
Name Your Price
Last Night Was Fun
The Deja Glitch
Nothing But The Truth

Transcript

00;00;00;05 - 00;00;22;19
Speaker 1
Hi and welcome to Literary Hype. I am Stefani, your literary hype woman. And today's author conversation is a very special one to me because this author was one of the first to believe in me enough to do an interview with me when I was just starting this channel. Like I had no subscribers and the publicists was like, Do you want to interview this person?

00;00;22;19 - 00;00;43;04
Speaker 1
And I was like, Sure. Because I had been in news, and so I was getting interviews through news and turning them into literary hype without the news. It's kind of two birds, one stone. So this was I think this was the first interview that was straight up offered to me as literary hype. So very special place in my heart for this author.

00;00;43;18 - 00;01;08;16
Speaker 1
And this is now her third time appearing on the show because she's got another book. And so I'm so excited to talk to you guys about Holly James and Name Your Price. This book is reality show drama with some celebrities there's a very intense force proximity in here like there is. This one's a good one. This is a good one.

00;01;09;26 - 00;01;25;21
Speaker 1
So without further ado, here is my conversation with Holly James Well, welcome back to Literary Hype. You are going to be the first one to three feet you.

00;01;25;23 - 00;01;26;12
Speaker 2
Very exciting.

00;01;26;23 - 00;01;35;21
Speaker 1
Which is appropriate because you're also the first one to come on the show when it was just me doing literary hype and not something for news. So you're a very special author to me.

00;01;36;12 - 00;01;38;01
Speaker 3
Aw, thank you.

00;01;38;01 - 00;01;39;08
Speaker 2
I'm excited to be here.

00;01;39;17 - 00;01;43;23
Speaker 1
This is my first time on the podcast side of things, so there's just so much excitement right now.

00;01;43;26 - 00;01;45;11
Speaker 2
My gosh, so much going on.

00;01;46;03 - 00;01;49;02
Speaker 1
No joke. You have so many books that we need to talk about today.

00;01;49;26 - 00;01;50;07
Speaker 2
Yes.

00;01;52;03 - 00;02;02;06
Speaker 1
So we'll get started with your most recent released name, Your Price. So for anyone who hasn't seen this online yet, what is this book about this book?

00;02;02;06 - 00;02;23;11
Speaker 2
I remembered to grab a copy to hold up. This book is my third romcom. I don't know. I would actually almost call it my first really romcom. RomCom, I guess the dog, which was a romcom, too. But this one is more kind of squarely in the romance on Earth. But this book is about a pair of exes who live in L.A.

00;02;24;08 - 00;02;47;16
Speaker 2
Who have like an on and off again relationships, kind of a tumultuous relationship. And they have this big blowout breakup on the street that gets recorded and the video goes viral. And Chuck, our love interest is like a B-list actor who's like kind of trying to try to get in Hollywood. And Olivia is an entertainment writer, and she is the child of this kind of, like, early nineties scandal.

00;02;47;16 - 00;02;57;29
Speaker 2
Her parents are both celebrities, so they both have some notoriety so when the video goes viral, there's a lot of interest in it. And this tv show called Name Your Price who.

00;02;58;21 - 00;02;59;07
Speaker 1
And the show.

00;02;59;07 - 00;03;00;16
Speaker 2
Like, pays people to do.

00;03;00;29 - 00;03;01;09
Speaker 3
Awful.

00;03;01;09 - 00;03;01;18
Speaker 2
Things.

00;03;01;18 - 00;03;02;21
Speaker 3
Basically think.

00;03;02;21 - 00;03;18;12
Speaker 2
They don't want to do like challenges them to, you know, can you survive this task? Basically, it will pay you money. The show sees the clip and offers them a chance to come on, come on. The show and try to live together, locked in a house for a month. And if they succeed, they will win $1,000,000 and they're both broke.

00;03;18;12 - 00;03;19;29
Speaker 2
So of course, they say yes.

00;03;20;06 - 00;03;23;12
Speaker 1
It wouldn't be fun or shenanigans if they didn't both say.

00;03;23;13 - 00;03;31;07
Speaker 3
Yes. Yes. I think it's probably the most kind of ridiculous premise I've had to meet.

00;03;32;03 - 00;03;33;03
Speaker 2
But it was really good time.

00;03;33;07 - 00;03;53;03
Speaker 1
The public breakup is the first chapter. It is so funny. So I'm glad my buddy read was like, if I saw this happening, I would 100% sit down and stare. It's just so entertaining. So talk a little bit about crafting a very public breakup that would generate the attention that it gets.

00;03;53;19 - 00;04;14;27
Speaker 2
Yeah. So that scene so I, I, I, this is probably the most heavily revised book I've ever written. I rewrote it like four times. It's going through it. Maybe we'll get, get into that down the line on another question. But, but that scene, the opening scene never change it was the same from the start. I just saw it so vividly in my mind, and I think I drew some inspiration.

00;04;15;22 - 00;04;35;06
Speaker 2
I know if you've ever seen a movie sleeping with other people, it's one of my favorite kind of underrated romcoms, but it has Alison Brie and Jason Sudeikis in it, I think. I don't know, it's from like, I'm going to get there on like 20, 17, 20, 18, maybe maybe it's older than that. But basically it starts with this, like, big breakup where like, they end up chasing each other out into the street.

00;04;35;06 - 00;05;00;12
Speaker 2
And I just thought that that was kind of silly and dramatic and would be a fun way to start this. And I always knew it was going to there was going to be like a viral video involved, right? So it needed to be worthy of going viral so yeah, that was a fun, fun scene to craft where they're just kind of like at each other's throats and they're half dressed because they just make up sex basically and then they break up 5 seconds later.

00;05;00;19 - 00;05;08;25
Speaker 2
It's all very, very symbolic of kind of the ups and downs of their relationship all takes place in the first hour on, I guess, on full display of the first chapter of this book.

00;05;08;29 - 00;05;18;00
Speaker 1
This is a really fun first line. So talk about what it's like to craft your first lines and like your mental process into it and what makes a good first line for you.

00;05;18;09 - 00;05;19;14
Speaker 3
Yeah, like I said this.

00;05;19;19 - 00;05;48;04
Speaker 2
The opening chapter of this really didn't change. Like, that's I feel like that's kind of been the case for all of my books. Like the first sentence, the first paragraph that it just comes to me so vividly. And that really sets the tone and the hook of like the whole story that I usually don't end up revising it unless a copy editor comes along and tells me I use the wrong word or becomes in the wrong place or whatever, but otherwise I'm usually kind of sick from the start.

00;05;48;04 - 00;06;03;16
Speaker 2
And I don't know, I think I think you can you can tell a lot from a first sentence about the book, like I love a book I think most people love books where you pick it up and you read the first sentence, then you like can't stop. You know, it pulls you and you just keep going and going.

00;06;03;25 - 00;06;26;20
Speaker 2
So I try to create that for readers and I think with this one in particular, I wanted it to showcase like they can't stand each other, but they love each other at the same time. This really intense dynamic they have. So I thought that the idea of I keep looking for it, what it says exactly, but how like basically they're tearing each other's heads off or tearing each other's clothes.

00;06;26;20 - 00;06;27;03
Speaker 3
Off.

00;06;27;18 - 00;06;46;04
Speaker 2
And there's no middle ground, there's nothing in between. I feel like that's kind of the perfect, perfect setup for this story. And then we watch them kind of grow beyond that, you know, as it progresses, they learn to have this not so hot and cold relationship. I've lost sight of your question. Sorry. How to craft opening and opening line.

00;06;47;23 - 00;06;55;22
Speaker 2
Yeah, I guess. Yeah. I just wanted to really convey like, so set the reader up like you're in you're in for a ride here. Like this is going to be there's going to be a lot.

00;06;56;18 - 00;06;57;26
Speaker 3
Boos just.

00;06;57;26 - 00;07;00;27
Speaker 1
Listening. We had to change some scenery.

00;07;01;12 - 00;07;02;15
Speaker 2
Change venue.

00;07;03;15 - 00;07;09;09
Speaker 1
So I promise you, it did not cut out much. Just something. So we have to me.

00;07;09;09 - 00;07;10;11
Speaker 2
Walking upstairs.

00;07;11;13 - 00;07;11;20
Speaker 3
Like.

00;07;12;04 - 00;07;20;19
Speaker 1
The background did change. You are not this is not here. To make you look oh, yeah. Now you look so much better. Here we go.

00;07;20;19 - 00;07;21;25
Speaker 2
Oh, good. OK, good.

00;07;22;03 - 00;07;23;13
Speaker 1
It's improving every second.

00;07;23;29 - 00;07;25;02
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah.

00;07;25;12 - 00;07;39;04
Speaker 1
So part of the reason that these two get all this interest is because they're celebrities in some kind of fashion. Talk a little bit about, as a psychologist, why we are all so obsessed with celebrities. And their personal lives.

00;07;39;23 - 00;07;56;19
Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. That's a good question. I don't know if I know the answer. I think I'm always drawn to to writing about our celebrity culture because I think it's kind of fun. And I think there's a lot of freedom in it because they can have these ridiculous lives and no one can be like, that's not realistic, you know?

00;07;56;28 - 00;07;58;13
Speaker 3
So I think that's.

00;07;58;13 - 00;08;24;06
Speaker 2
What what makes it fun in fiction and in romance, you know, you can have these kind of like wild grand gestures, like, yeah, sure. They're, you know, they hop on a plane and fly to Paris because they're celebrities. They can do whatever they want. But yeah, I think I think we're fascinated by the culture because it feels, especially in the era of social media, like it feels simultaneously like out of reach, but also we're part of it, like we're observing it.

00;08;24;06 - 00;08;28;17
Speaker 2
And I think that just feels it makes you feel kind of like.

00;08;28;18 - 00;08;29;01
Speaker 3
Special.

00;08;29;25 - 00;08;39;22
Speaker 2
To be able to, like, be part of these lives of these super rich and famous, famous people. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that that's my answer. I don't know if anyone really know the answer to that question.

00;08;39;22 - 00;08;41;18
Speaker 3
But it's kind of it.

00;08;42;10 - 00;09;05;20
Speaker 1
I think about a lot because I'm a big hip hop fan and K-pop fans are a little bit Dilulio I'll be honest. My phone background is no song biggie from it is he is my future second husband. So like that that idea that celebrities belong to us and that we have a right to know what is going on in their lives is always fascinating to me.

00;09;05;20 - 00;09;05;28
Speaker 1
I'm like.

00;09;05;28 - 00;09;06;21
Speaker 2
Yeah, why.

00;09;06;21 - 00;09;07;14
Speaker 1
Are we like this?

00;09;07;21 - 00;09;21;29
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, why do we care so much? Like, I don't know. I guess there's there's definitely like an escapism element to it. Like, you can think, I don't know, like you can imagine the this life that they have. And I guess now we can see it on display so much again with social media and it's fun to write about.

00;09;22;12 - 00;09;22;18
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;09;22;23 - 00;09;31;05
Speaker 1
And also going along with that is the nipple baby conversation, which does play a role in this story. And it's been all across the news all year long.

00;09;34;04 - 00;09;45;20
Speaker 1
Do you feel like the nipple baby label is limiting and diminishing what they've worked for, or is it like earned that they. Yeah, you got in because your parents are famous.

00;09;46;05 - 00;10;05;02
Speaker 2
I don't know. That's a hard question, I think. I mean, there is a scene in this book where they were Chuck and Olivia like fight about that. And he called her an apple baby. And she's like like, you know, that's reductive and insulting. And I think to some extent it is because there are definitely, you know, children and celebrities who are extremely talented and deserve the careers they've been able to have.

00;10;05;19 - 00;10;18;26
Speaker 2
But also, I mean, you know, my I guess my experience in at least on the periphery of that world is just in publishing you know, at minimum, in publishing, so many things depend on who you know. And like if you have someone who can open a door for you.

00;10;19;15 - 00;10;20;15
Speaker 3
That's just a.

00;10;20;15 - 00;10;40;22
Speaker 2
Huge, huge leg up over you know, everyone else is trying to achieve the same goals. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, there are obviously advantages, but then I feel like we shouldn't necessarily just automatically diminish their talents on their merits because I mean, if their parents are super talented people, they're probably super talented, too, you.

00;10;40;22 - 00;10;42;23
Speaker 3
Know, like they inherited those.

00;10;42;23 - 00;10;55;27
Speaker 2
Genes. So yeah, I don't think it's entirely fair to to reduce them to like, oh, you're, you're only famous because your parents are famous. But there is definitely an element of advantage, I guess, to, to being kind of born into that world.

00;10;56;06 - 00;11;05;10
Speaker 1
I just think of like Jack Quaid and how he was called the nipple baby and then his mom's like, Oh, that's reductive. And he's like, No, mom, I.

00;11;05;10 - 00;11;06;22
Speaker 3
Am I am.

00;11;06;25 - 00;11;19;07
Speaker 1
Also still working hard. He he openly admits to his privilege of having that foot in the door, but he's still working hard. I think some website called him, like the hardest working guy or the busiest guy at San Diego Comic-Con. He was there were four different projects.

00;11;19;18 - 00;11;20;08
Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh.

00;11;20;25 - 00;11;22;27
Speaker 1
Which would not want to do.

00;11;24;03 - 00;11;38;25
Speaker 2
He's a celebrity child where I feel like if he's stand next to his mom, he looks just like her. But if he sounds like his dad, he looks just like him, like how he's like the perfect, perfect max and so is my hawk is like that to like she's Ethan Hawke, she's Uma Thurman. Like, she's just.

00;11;39;04 - 00;11;40;11
Speaker 3
Smushed but.

00;11;40;12 - 00;11;43;27
Speaker 1
She's also the one who's like, not man, I have I had the leg up. So.

00;11;44;05 - 00;11;45;07
Speaker 2
Yeah, she's like, I know.

00;11;45;07 - 00;11;51;00
Speaker 1
Which ones are like, yeah, I had help. But also I worked hard and others were just like, don't reduce me.

00;11;51;00 - 00;11;59;05
Speaker 2
It's very. Yeah, yeah. I definitely think, yeah. The ones who, like, acknowledge their privilege are a little easier to deal with.

00;11;59;24 - 00;12;09;28
Speaker 1
So since these characters, Olivia and Chuck, they are celebrity adjacent. If you were to cast this movie, who would you want to play these two? Wow.

00;12;09;28 - 00;12;37;09
Speaker 2
So I started drafting this back in probably 20, 22. And at that time, Glenn Powell was not really on my radar. But now he is inescapable and he is 100% Chuck like that man was born to play. Chuck, I think for Olivia. I've always had on a day almost in my mind because I think she's kind of like feisty and like she would just be really good in that role.

00;12;37;21 - 00;12;50;20
Speaker 2
And I would love to see the two of them on screen together. I think both have a good dynamic, although I think Gwen Powell has like insane chemistry with anyone he volunteering with. So I'm sure no matter who it would work out. But I think they would be a great duo for this.

00;12;50;29 - 00;12;55;00
Speaker 1
It's really not fair how good he is. I know costars.

00;12;55;00 - 00;12;57;00
Speaker 3
It's wild. It is.

00;12;57;16 - 00;12;58;19
Speaker 2
Really is oh.

00;12;58;20 - 00;13;07;05
Speaker 1
Yeah. Because you were drafting this the first time we talked because you already had dated Glitch Done. And so you were drafting this. Yeah. Way on back.

00;13;07;27 - 00;13;08;15
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;13;08;28 - 00;13;09;23
Speaker 3
Oh, we'll circle.

00;13;09;23 - 00;13;10;10
Speaker 2
I'll go.

00;13;12;20 - 00;13;13;27
Speaker 1
We finally get to talk about.

00;13;13;27 - 00;13;14;02
Speaker 3
It.

00;13;14;26 - 00;13;16;07
Speaker 2
Finally. Here we are.

00;13;16;07 - 00;13;37;13
Speaker 1
I know. And along with that, we have a Jack and Jenna reference from Data Glitch, which had a reference to the couple from the first book. So what points in the drafting process do you figure out where you can work in a nugget from one of your past books and make it work?

00;13;37;22 - 00;14;00;05
Speaker 2
I think it usually just kind of pops up organically. Like, I know I want to do that, you know? And all my books are kind of the same universe, but I don't go in with like a really strategic plan of like, Oh, what's going to happen in chapter five? Like it just where it makes sense. And I thought in this case, Olivia is an entertainment writer, and Jack and Gemma from the like, which are in the entertainment industry, is like a rough, easy, easy inclusion.

00;14;01;05 - 00;14;20;04
Speaker 2
I did have in one of the early drafts of this, again, I rewrote this book like four times, one of the early drafts, the Olivia interview. Then like on the page I got seen with on the page, like she went to their house and talked to them and I kind of like that, but it didn't make the final cut, so it just got reduced down to like something that had recently happened in the past.

00;14;20;04 - 00;14;21;10
Speaker 2
But the reference is still in there.

00;14;21;18 - 00;14;24;11
Speaker 1
What's the hardest part of cutting things for you?

00;14;24;16 - 00;14;48;04
Speaker 2
I don't know. I think I'm very this is going to sound heartless of me, but I'm very I think it comes from my scientific upbringing and brain. I can be very objective about the story and I can recognize like, oh, that's not working. I need to get rid of it. And I'm not like married to it. And I have had I have had things in the past where there's like, you know, a sentence that I love or like a scene that I love and it like stings for a little bit.

00;14;48;04 - 00;15;04;23
Speaker 2
But then I realize, like, all right, that I keep women working so I can get rid of it. The hardest part is actually like stitching it back together when I, like, take a chunk out of it or move it to a different place. I always have to like, like like literally, you know, like thread it back into the story and make sure that it makes sense and it's still consistent.

00;15;05;26 - 00;15;34;03
Speaker 2
Yeah. Revising is, is really hard for me. It's like I heard an interview with Sara Adler was giving an interview once and she described she said directing is creating and revising is problem solving. Yes. 100%. There are two different parts of your brain. And it's just like since I'm such a pantzer and I was I love drafting that's my absolute favorite part like when it comes out of my my mind to me and like this is accurate, this makes sense.

00;15;34;03 - 00;15;37;05
Speaker 2
This is how it works. And then you have an owner come along and say.

00;15;37;16 - 00;15;38;19
Speaker 3
You got to change it all.

00;15;39;18 - 00;15;55;19
Speaker 2
And then that's where it's like, oh, you know, it's just a whole different process of rethinking and pulling the story apart and putting it back together. And that's just hard for me to do. But I, I think I've learned and I'm writing, I'm currently drafting my sixth.

00;15;56;00 - 00;15;57;02
Speaker 3
Book right now.

00;15;57;06 - 00;16;16;10
Speaker 2
Six, number six. And so I've learned, like, I can anticipate what the editor's going to say, like in terms of like structure and tone and character and pacing. So I can, I can try to make those changes in the first, you know, like account for those things. In the first drafts of that, the revisions are less painful, but at least in my mind, that's how I feel.

00;16;16;24 - 00;16;17;10
Speaker 3
Like, oh, it's.

00;16;17;10 - 00;16;19;11
Speaker 2
Better this time, I learned. But we'll see when.

00;16;19;11 - 00;16;19;26
Speaker 3
It gets to the.

00;16;20;11 - 00;16;21;05
Speaker 2
Editing phase.

00;16;21;21 - 00;16;35;23
Speaker 1
And along with the crafting is the show features a reality TV show. So how did you build this reality TV show for these characters to be trapped in as one of them? I think a little bit called it A House of Horrors.

00;16;36;20 - 00;16;37;04
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;16;37;24 - 00;16;44;03
Speaker 1
And the challenges that they would have to do to really pick them in particular.

00;16;44;11 - 00;17;08;21
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, first I feel like I have to confess that I feel a little bit like a fraud because like I don't watch reality TV. I did back in the heyday, like the early 2000s with like American Idol and, you know, America's Next Top Model and Top Chef and all that kind of early competition shows. I was super into those, but I've never been into any of the like dating shows or really anything else.

00;17;09;01 - 00;17;15;24
Speaker 2
So I feel like I'm kind of like I'm not fully qualified. So to make up this story, but I yeah. So the.

00;17;16;07 - 00;17;17;09
Speaker 3
The first.

00;17;18;02 - 00;17;37;18
Speaker 2
Iteration of this, it was going to be a fake dating story. Where there's still like the viral breakups still happened, but the show like challenged them like, oh, if you get back together, we'll give you $1,000,000, you know? So I was going to have them, like, pretend to get back together. And then, of course, like, fall in love again when my agent and my editor were like, there's not a real plot there.

00;17;37;18 - 00;17;59;06
Speaker 2
Like, what's the story going to be? What's going to happen? And I was like, all right, you're right. So I had to think through many, many iterations of how we were going to get this into something with stakes and, you know, do an actual story. And so that's where the reality TV show came into it. And at first it was going to be just the show was kind of like following them in their daily lives.

00;18;00;11 - 00;18;18;05
Speaker 2
But again, there wasn't a lot of like meat to that story. So my editor was the one who suggested, like, what if they are, like, locked in a house where they're forced to live together? Like, we could play with that for sure. So that's where yeah, that's how I transitioned into that. And then the issue became like, what's going to happen while they're in the house?

00;18;18;15 - 00;18;33;26
Speaker 2
Like there's a line early on where they're, they're negotiating with the show producers, and the producers tell them like, Oh, you're going to be presented with some challenges while you're in the house. And they're like, Oh, what do you mean? He's like, We're not going to be doing nothing all day. Like Keeping Up with the Kardashians. Sorry, anyone who loves that show.

00;18;33;26 - 00;18;35;14
Speaker 3
But I was like.

00;18;35;27 - 00;18;56;18
Speaker 2
You know, something has to happen. So yeah, so I started thinking of like all the things that really drive couples crazy, like, even the most mundane things, you know, like assembling furniture or like doing the dishes or having to agree on dinner, like, just everyday things where you can just, like, they get each other and just get really frustrated over it.

00;18;58;01 - 00;19;14;26
Speaker 2
So I was thinking of ways to turn those into some kind of competition or some something where something was at stake in the house. And it was really fun to think of kind of all these creative, silly ways to to torture them. While they were in there. Sorry to Olivia and Chuck in this.

00;19;15;02 - 00;19;35;21
Speaker 1
It was a little bit of art and life kind of vibing. You because one of their issues is that Chuck leaves his stuff everywhere and you dedicate the show to your husband and right before tour well, your husband first. And so talk a little bit about what happened and how you're doing with your foot.

00;19;35;21 - 00;19;37;05
Speaker 3
Really? Yeah.

00;19;37;05 - 00;20;02;16
Speaker 2
Oh, gosh, that was ridiculous. But yeah, I think of all the the love interest I've written, Chuck shares a lot of characteristics with my husband, just again, like his little quirks and personality traits and his habits and things. But yeah, so right before I think it was like a week and a half before my book tour started, he left his crocs on the floor.

00;20;02;16 - 00;20;23;02
Speaker 2
He always leaves them at the foot of our stairs and we have tile floors, and those stupid clogs are so grippy they just like, stick to the floor. So if I try to kick them out the way, like, they don't move, they just stick. And I always, always, always ask him to move them, and he never does. And that day was particularly dramatic because our dog was right here next to me, had had surgery.

00;20;23;02 - 00;20;35;12
Speaker 2
And it was that evening and I was cooking dinner and he the dog have like popped up and she was doing something she was supposed to be doing. And so I just was trying to get his help. So I went running across the room and I tripped.

00;20;35;12 - 00;20;35;27
Speaker 3
Over this.

00;20;35;27 - 00;20;51;22
Speaker 2
Croc's hard enough to break my toe and yeah, it was it was one of those moments where, like, I looked down at it and, sorry, this is gross. My toe was like sideways. And I was, I think my brain, which is like protecting me, was like, you don't feel it. Nothing's happening.

00;20;52;18 - 00;20;53;08
Speaker 3
Oh, God.

00;20;54;14 - 00;21;10;17
Speaker 2
And it really it like, I think the shock of it, I didn't actually feel it for several minutes. So, yeah, we got to spend that night in urgent care and I had a walking boot for like a month and yeah, the crocs, our moves now they no longer reside at the foot of the stairs, but.

00;21;11;17 - 00;21;11;26
Speaker 3
It did.

00;21;11;26 - 00;21;21;13
Speaker 2
Feel very appropriate there. I was like, that's totally something Chuck would do. He would leave his shoes after she told them to move them and. Yeah, life imitating art for sure.

00;21;22;08 - 00;21;24;04
Speaker 1
Having broken a toe. It's no joke.

00;21;25;00 - 00;21;25;16
Speaker 3
It's. Yeah.

00;21;25;25 - 00;21;34;12
Speaker 2
The second time and it makes you feel like, so pathetic because it's like the teeny, tiniest little thing, and you don't realize how much you use your body and how you can't walk.

00;21;34;19 - 00;21;35;09
Speaker 3
And it's.

00;21;35;26 - 00;21;36;12
Speaker 2
Awful.

00;21;36;13 - 00;21;42;24
Speaker 1
The second from the pinky or also kind of sideways from running into my sister. So it was my sister's foot.

00;21;42;25 - 00;21;51;04
Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. Well, I know you don't realize how much power is, like, just taking a step. You don't realize how much, like, power is behind your leg when you when you move.

00;21;51;19 - 00;21;54;13
Speaker 1
So those are important even though they don't seem like it.

00;21;54;23 - 00;21;55;07
Speaker 3
Yes.

00;21;55;08 - 00;21;57;03
Speaker 2
You know, fortunately, all.

00;21;57;03 - 00;22;09;02
Speaker 1
That science stuff which goes along with I feel like this is your most psychologically involved in forms novel and as a psychologist.

00;22;09;02 - 00;22;09;13
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;22;10;15 - 00;22;26;11
Speaker 1
The like self awareness and deflecting conversations that they have like trying to get to the root of it. So talk a little bit about making sure your characters are scientifically sound behaving yeah.

00;22;26;11 - 00;22;47;11
Speaker 2
That was, that was a really big challenge in this book again because I think that came out a lot in the revisions. I think it particularly kind of like shines in this book because the setting and the plot are so focused. They're just they're stuck in a house. You know, there's like there's nothing else to happen other than dissect their relationship and learn about themselves.

00;22;48;26 - 00;23;13;12
Speaker 2
So I really did kind of struggle with that, figuring out how I was going to like take them apart on the page and really examine them and figure out what was motivating their behavior. And I learned so much about them as characters, but also just about my own writing process going through that, like figuring out like what what's really driving them and why are they the way they are and how are they going to move past that?

00;23;14;29 - 00;23;36;28
Speaker 2
And I really did write out little like nothing, nothing that ended up on the page of the book, but little kind of like biographies of them, like their back and like how like, like literally it says like why is Chuck the way he is? And there's a breakdown of his childhood and his early career and how he got into acting and like, why it matters to him so much and why he struggles to communicate in certain ways.

00;23;36;29 - 00;23;59;19
Speaker 2
The same thing for Olivia, and I think that's where my psychological training really came in. It was like all rooted in their childhood, how they were their brains, how they learned to interact with romantic partners. You know, like Olivia was raised by her grandmother because her parents tragically died when she was a baby. And then Chuck was raised in this almost like toxic positivity environment where everyone's happy all the time.

00;23;59;19 - 00;24;10;23
Speaker 2
And, you know, his parents never, ever quite so. He never learned how to fight in a healthy way, you know, never went how to how to resolve conflict. So once I figured that out, that was honestly that was like painful.

00;24;10;23 - 00;24;12;15
Speaker 3
That was going through that.

00;24;12;15 - 00;24;39;07
Speaker 2
I felt like I was going through therapy, trying to learn about these fictional people I had created. But once I figured that out and worked through please now on the page, I think that's what makes this book such a rich story. And because we really do see their character arcs more than anything else, you know, we see them grow from these kind of like almost immature, not really fully functional romantic partners to working through these problems.

00;24;39;07 - 00;24;45;21
Speaker 2
And then at the end, they realize that they can be better for themselves and for each other. So, yeah, it was.

00;24;46;09 - 00;24;47;27
Speaker 3
Oh, a lot of.

00;24;48;03 - 00;25;03;09
Speaker 2
A lot of work to get to that point and to get it on the page in like a satisfying way. You know, I didn't want them to just be fighting the whole time. I wanted them to to recognize the patterns in their behavior and understand why they, you know, act certain ways and learn about each other themselves. And my therapy book.

00;25;05;06 - 00;25;15;17
Speaker 1
I mean, valid, but so is this writing the back story to kind of help them? Is that a new tool that you've added to your toolbox, or is this something you've done with every character?

00;25;15;22 - 00;25;32;20
Speaker 2
Yeah, I know for sure, like from here, but this one going forward. So in the book, I'm I'm currently in copy, and it's for my 20, 25 rom com and I took that into drafting that book. Like I, I learned from this book that that's really important and it really just enhances I think it enhances the reading experience.

00;25;32;20 - 00;25;52;14
Speaker 2
You know, when you are, you can feel the depth of the character and it really comes out on the page more, it just makes it more satisfying to, to read it and see the character arc and follow their journey and cheer for them, you know. So yeah, I definitely put that. I know that I have to put that the story from the beginning now versus, you know, handing it over to my editor and then being like.

00;25;53;12 - 00;25;56;24
Speaker 3
This is cool, but there's no depth to it. I have to start over.

00;25;57;23 - 00;25;59;11
Speaker 2
See, I learn. I learn with every book.

00;26;00;21 - 00;26;07;16
Speaker 1
Is there anything you have learned specifically from this book other than that that you wish you knew when you were writing the first book?

00;26;07;21 - 00;26;27;23
Speaker 2
That is a good question. I think I'm definitely becoming so. This is like my like spiciest book. I would say for now, the one, the 25 one is even even spicier. But I feel like I learn from this one that I'm capable of doing that. Like I was very so I don't know, it's been a it's been an interesting kind of evolution through my romcoms.

00;26;27;23 - 00;26;47;22
Speaker 2
This is the first one, nothing. But the truth is, I wouldn't call it a romance, you know, it's like commercial women's fiction kind of. And there is the romance with like a seaport plot, not even to be bought and this one or in the dialog, which was very, you know, like kind of PG, almost like Disney movie, you know, cute, like takes place in a single day.

00;26;47;22 - 00;27;06;12
Speaker 2
And it's all about like falling of love. Then this one, you know, so much of this story is rooted in their chemistry and their like basically their sexual compatibility is what keeps them together. Seems like all right. That has to pay off on the page. So I think I've definitely gained more confidence in writing these more intimate and romantic scenes.

00;27;07;02 - 00;27;13;06
Speaker 2
So that's fun. To kind of experiment with and go for it, take forward into other other books in the future.

00;27;13;08 - 00;27;16;15
Speaker 1
It definitely has gotten bigger as you've gone along.

00;27;17;12 - 00;27;17;22
Speaker 3
With.

00;27;18;05 - 00;27;30;16
Speaker 1
Includes. One thing I wrote down about this book is that you saw Chuck does a pull up and Olivia's like the muscles on display at what point did you count how many muscles?

00;27;31;06 - 00;27;32;25
Speaker 3
Oh, I like Google the picture.

00;27;32;25 - 00;27;49;12
Speaker 2
I Google a picture so that so that's that's actually a scene kind of taken from real life my husband would be incredibly embarrassed to be heard me tell the story. But when we were in graduate school, he was it was before we lived together. But I think I had just like something out of this house or something and he has always been into weight lifting.

00;27;49;12 - 00;27;58;28
Speaker 2
Like the whole time I've known him, he's been into weight lifting. And I had like walked out into the garage to ask him a question and he was like, he's doing a squat, not a pull. Up. I like having tools or sexier, but still.

00;28;00;03 - 00;28;00;16
Speaker 3
He was.

00;28;00;26 - 00;28;22;28
Speaker 2
Like mid squat. And I like like I've never in my life had my mind just like go blank. I was just like I had a question on, like, the tip of my tongue. And then I saw him. I was just like so I felt the need to put that in in the story. But I did to get that accurate, I did Google a picture of like someone doing a pull up and you can count all the muscles.

00;28;22;28 - 00;28;30;24
Speaker 3
Man back for research, for accuracy's sake. For science. Yes.

00;28;31;17 - 00;28;35;28
Speaker 1
Well, my husband, who you've met is also a big weight lifter, so I get it.

00;28;36;21 - 00;28;37;22
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, yeah.

00;28;38;16 - 00;28;43;02
Speaker 1
I've watched him deadlift almost he's get over 650.

00;28;43;15 - 00;28;44;06
Speaker 2
Oh my God.

00;28;44;06 - 00;28;48;12
Speaker 1
He's getting his, I think he was like 660, 670, something like that. But he's get close to.

00;28;48;14 - 00;28;48;26
Speaker 3
Me.

00;28;49;12 - 00;29;02;13
Speaker 2
So dang that's OK. So I've never spoken to someone who lives with the deadlift there, but is it not the loudest, most obnoxious thing, the sound of the weights dropping like I can't oh ok.

00;29;02;14 - 00;29;08;05
Speaker 1
Goes to the gym but also when I go to the gym with him I know when he's deadlifting because.

00;29;08;10 - 00;29;09;04
Speaker 2
Oh my gosh, you know.

00;29;09;24 - 00;29;10;04
Speaker 1
It's.

00;29;10;04 - 00;29;11;13
Speaker 3
So loud, it's.

00;29;11;13 - 00;29;31;18
Speaker 2
So loud, it's the force of the weight hitting the ground but it's the force of the plate smacking into each other and our yeah I has, my husband works out in our garage and our dog, she'll come cuddle next to me when he's doing it because she hates the sound too. And I mean it's been, you know, we have like ten years of this together but still and I tell him to like give me a warning because I'm not expecting it.

00;29;31;18 - 00;29;39;10
Speaker 2
It's just this like, boom. And the whole house shakes and it's, yeah, I think I need like a support group for people who live with weightlifters.

00;29;40;03 - 00;29;41;24
Speaker 1
It's a whole different world.

00;29;42;05 - 00;29;42;26
Speaker 3
Oh, it's, it's.

00;29;42;26 - 00;29;43;14
Speaker 2
The whole thing.

00;29;43;14 - 00;30;02;13
Speaker 1
I know with like, if you had a Planet Fitness membership for a little bit, just for like when we're traveling. So those are usually more accessible. And the number of Planet Fitness is he's been kicked out of just for doing his workout because they call him a lunk just because his workout is heavier and it's like, yeah, judgment free zone, I think.

00;30;02;13 - 00;30;11;03
Speaker 2
No, I know, I know. That's yeah, we'll go places and my husband, he'll go into the he'll like like a hotel or something, you know, he'll like survey him. He's a guy. Not in a way.

00;30;11;04 - 00;30;12;06
Speaker 3
It's like.

00;30;12;19 - 00;30;14;16
Speaker 2
OK, first of all, we're on vacation, so you can give it a break.

00;30;14;19 - 00;30;23;17
Speaker 3
And second of all, thank you man. I know we had this to relate over to. We're in San.

00;30;23;17 - 00;30;26;04
Speaker 1
Diego Comic-Con, and he's like, you're like, do I have time to go to the gym?

00;30;27;12 - 00;30;28;00
Speaker 3
No.

00;30;28;25 - 00;30;31;24
Speaker 1
I did not schedule a gym break, sir. We are going.

00;30;32;06 - 00;30;35;03
Speaker 3
6 a.m. to midnight. This is what we did.

00;30;37;15 - 00;30;57;04
Speaker 2
The priorities. And that's so that's actually the whole scene in Reprise where there's that they're in the diner and they're talking about the rules on set with each other. Olivia has this little reflection on how much effort he puts into his body and how like the exercise and the diet routine and how that dictates their life. That's definitely inspired.

00;30;57;29 - 00;30;58;15
Speaker 3
Formula.

00;30;59;17 - 00;31;15;25
Speaker 1
Well, one other question before we move on to your upcoming books. There are so many Twilight references in this book. And it just makes me so happy. But deciding how you want to put in references to something as iconic as Twilight.

00;31;16;17 - 00;31;16;26
Speaker 3
Oh my.

00;31;16;26 - 00;31;17;11
Speaker 2
Gosh, I.

00;31;17;11 - 00;31;18;29
Speaker 3
Don't. Again, it just kind.

00;31;18;29 - 00;31;24;24
Speaker 2
Of happens organically. I don't know. I think I like I like think of a joke in the moment. Like that fits perfectly right there.

00;31;26;25 - 00;31;27;16
Speaker 2
No, I can't. I can't.

00;31;28;01 - 00;31;29;02
Speaker 3
Are there more than one?

00;31;29;02 - 00;31;30;23
Speaker 2
I can only think of one. Did I do more than one?

00;31;31;05 - 00;31;35;19
Speaker 1
I think that more than one. It's been 2 minutes to read it. But every letter that he signs.

00;31;36;04 - 00;31;37;06
Speaker 2
Yeah, that one for.

00;31;37;06 - 00;31;44;05
Speaker 1
Sure. I mean, there was brown in that. He said, Edward, like, I feel like it was somewhere else because that's why he referenced Edward.

00;31;44;10 - 00;31;53;07
Speaker 2
Or he was watching her sleep that's what it was he was like because he wanted he wanted to get in bed with her. But then that would lead to things that would cause problems. So he would just watching her sleep.

00;31;55;15 - 00;31;56;00
Speaker 3
But yeah, I.

00;31;56;00 - 00;32;14;19
Speaker 2
Don't know. I think I always worry that my pop culture references are either going to like date me, like, I'll be like this person's old making this joke or or it, like, will not be relevant anymore by the time a book comes out. Because, again, I drafted this like two years ago at this point. So that's that's a tricky game to play.

00;32;14;19 - 00;32;19;28
Speaker 2
When you're writing, writing comedy when something's funny right now, it might not be funny and by the time the book is off the shelf.

00;32;19;28 - 00;32;20;24
Speaker 3
But I think I think.

00;32;20;25 - 00;32;22;14
Speaker 2
Twilight is like evergreen.

00;32;23;06 - 00;32;23;25
Speaker 3
We can always.

00;32;24;10 - 00;32;25;06
Speaker 2
Always reference it.

00;32;25;22 - 00;32;36;01
Speaker 1
I mean, around the time you were reference, you were writing this toilet was making its big comeback because they put it on Netflix and all the children found it. And we were suddenly selling books on. We're like, what happened?

00;32;36;24 - 00;32;39;25
Speaker 3
All the children found it. So you.

00;32;39;27 - 00;32;41;02
Speaker 1
Book. Oh, honey.

00;32;41;19 - 00;32;42;00
Speaker 3
You're like.

00;32;42;00 - 00;32;43;09
Speaker 2
Oh, you don't even know.

00;32;43;18 - 00;32;45;04
Speaker 1
Have you heard of Twilight?

00;32;45;05 - 00;32;46;03
Speaker 3
I'm like.

00;32;46;03 - 00;32;50;17
Speaker 1
Oh, honey, I got it. I was there when it came out. OK.

00;32;51;10 - 00;32;51;20
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;32;52;00 - 00;32;53;02
Speaker 1
We have Twilight.

00;32;53;21 - 00;32;54;08
Speaker 3
When did the.

00;32;54;08 - 00;32;55;05
Speaker 2
First one came out like.

00;32;55;17 - 00;32;57;01
Speaker 3
She too far.

00;32;57;13 - 00;32;59;12
Speaker 2
I think the first movie came out in eight.

00;32;59;21 - 00;33;08;28
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. It was my first year in college. I was a freshman in college, and the movie came out and I read the first two books in high school.

00;33;09;14 - 00;33;09;23
Speaker 2
OK?

00;33;10;11 - 00;33;14;18
Speaker 1
It was in between high school and college. Something like that.

00;33;14;18 - 00;33;15;03
Speaker 2
Sounds right.

00;33;15;11 - 00;33;16;24
Speaker 1
So school ish for me.

00;33;17;15 - 00;33;17;26
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;33;19;03 - 00;33;20;17
Speaker 3
I still remember ages ago.

00;33;20;26 - 00;33;27;09
Speaker 1
Going to like K-State I would to say so Manhattan didn't have a theater that was doing a midnight showing.

00;33;27;29 - 00;33;28;26
Speaker 2
And. Oh, no, we.

00;33;28;26 - 00;33;39;12
Speaker 1
Drove an hour to go do a midnight showing and we were so excited that we just ran out of the dorms. Didn't think about that. It was November.

00;33;39;29 - 00;33;40;18
Speaker 3
Oh, my gosh.

00;33;41;14 - 00;33;54;24
Speaker 1
So we were standing in the parking lot in our Twilight t shirts in November. And like, I volunteered as a very broke college freshman to go buy candy for people from the grocery stores to sell, to smuggle in because I was so cold, I wanted to go.

00;33;54;24 - 00;34;06;24
Speaker 3
So, like, just give me a reason to go somewhere. Like, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll go down the street. Just so for like 15 minutes, it was great. All the.

00;34;08;25 - 00;34;09;22
Speaker 2
Good times.

00;34;09;23 - 00;34;32;09
Speaker 1
Have you seen Julie Murphy's Twilight Keychain No. It's just like a blue piece of plastic. I forget what it says on it, but it's like if you know, you know that everything's blue it's like it just looks like twilight on the frame. It's like a frame. So there's something like that. But yeah, like Twilight vision or something like that.

00;34;32;09 - 00;34;55;13
Speaker 1
It's super so name your price is your book, your third book. You have so many more. I know three more to talk about, so I'll let you decide if we want to talk. Last Night was Fun Big Fix or the Thriller Flips there.

00;34;55;13 - 00;34;59;11
Speaker 2
Yeah, I, I'm getting to the point where I kind of feel like I created a monster.

00;35;00;26 - 00;35;01;07
Speaker 3
Right?

00;35;01;18 - 00;35;23;15
Speaker 2
So I, I was as intentional as I could be about like pacing them out, you know, but the way that they sold and the way that the contracts line up, there's not, there is a lot of overlap in like the production timelines of them. And I mean, of course, being a super studious nerd, I made this like Gantt chart of like, you know, this one will be in revisions and this one will be in copy, this one will be in this map.

00;35;24;07 - 00;35;45;09
Speaker 2
And so like that, I kind of I have under control. But what I wasn't anticipating was I think like not even a week after your price came out, the big fix went up on that gully. And I was like, I'm not emotionally prepared to have that that book like publicly available and start getting tagged and reviews and stuff and so, yeah, I wasn't really anticipating the overlap.

00;35;45;09 - 00;36;05;05
Speaker 2
I was thinking, you know, when I had the release dates for the books, I'm like, oh, they'll be months apart. That's fine. But I wasn't thinking of yeah, the pre prerelease publicity type of stuff. So yeah, it's been in this past week. I have I received the copy edits for last night was fine which is my 20, 25 rom com.

00;36;05;05 - 00;36;22;00
Speaker 2
And then I turned in the past pages for The Big Fix, which is out in March and I got the go ahead to start drafting or to continue drafting Book two in the Big Deal. It's not a sequel, but it's another like in that genre that like action comedy thing, all that happened within like four days.

00;36;22;03 - 00;36;24;23
Speaker 3
So it's been like.

00;36;24;23 - 00;36;41;17
Speaker 2
I very much have to like compartmentalize like, you know, I'm thinking of this one right now. I'm thinking of this one right now. So yeah, but I think since Name Price is now out in the world, I can kind of shift to the big fix, like preparation and promo and stuff because that one's out in March into March.

00;36;41;25 - 00;37;01;05
Speaker 2
I don't have it yet. I have my little by little preorder postcard here that I carry around with me, and it's actually been like the screen on my phone for months and months. I love the cover of this one so much. It's so cool. Like I, I didn't really have a vision for what I wanted it to look like and they just like, went for it and they showed me several options.

00;37;01;05 - 00;37;18;16
Speaker 2
And this one, I was like, that one, that one right there. I love the like pop art style of it. And it just like, it just looks like you're in for a good time. Which is all I want this book to be. This this is my favorite book that I've written so far. No shade to the other ones, but it just brought me so much joy to write it.

00;37;18;16 - 00;37;35;04
Speaker 2
And I think it's I hope the readers will share that experience because it's very like silly but suspenseful and a little bit romantic and there's action and comedy and yeah, it's just a good time, so I'm very excited about it.

00;37;35;25 - 00;37;43;22
Speaker 1
So what's it about? You compared it to Fall Guy so I was very intrigued by that. And I do have a neck alley approval, so I will be reading it soon.

00;37;44;00 - 00;37;47;25
Speaker 3
Or Exciting Board, but little the.

00;37;47;25 - 00;38;05;29
Speaker 2
Little tagline on the back of the card says A modern blend of screwball action and romantic attraction when a case of mistaken identity lands a college professor on the run with a mysterious and dangerously hot fixer. So it's basically like an opposites attract mistaken identity like kidnap keeper.

00;38;07;03 - 00;38;07;20
Speaker 3
Along.

00;38;08;04 - 00;38;32;04
Speaker 2
So our main character, Penny. Penny is a professor. She's like a very nerdy, studious computer sciences professor, and she's just trying to make ten years. That's like the stage she's in, in her career. She basically has the summer to finish her ten year face, and that's all she wants. But she's been working for it for a long time, and her sister is like a stay at home mom just has a totally different lifestyle.

00;38;32;04 - 00;38;46;25
Speaker 2
Like she's raising two young kids and she lives in this kind of suburban kingdom, and it's set in Silicon Valley, like kind of close to where I where I grew up was in the Bay Area of Northern California. And her sister is like on a mission to set her up with a man. Like she wants her to have a partner in life.

00;38;47;05 - 00;39;22;10
Speaker 2
So she's always scheming, like trying to set her up with someone and the beginning of the story, her sister's neighbor dies and he lives in this like big old Victorian mansion and they have an estate sale. And so under the guise of like, come check out the estate sale with me, she invites or just invites her down for the day and they go there and the deceased's neighbors, very attractive nephew, is there running the sale and she has interaction with him where they're arguing over these candlesticks so he's randomly and everyone kind of thinks that they're a couple.

00;39;22;10 - 00;39;42;28
Speaker 2
They get the idea, you know, this like chemistry spark goes off between them and everyone assumes they're a couple. And then in the course of the estate sale, there is a dead body discovered in the closet and things kind of like snowball spiral out of control and you know, they have to go to a police station and get them to give a statement and talk about everything that happened.

00;39;42;28 - 00;39;54;08
Speaker 2
And then there is a photo taken of her and the nephew outside the police station, and it looks like they are a couple and that she might be an accomplice in.

00;39;54;08 - 00;39;55;23
Speaker 3
The whole dead body situation.

00;39;55;25 - 00;40;17;29
Speaker 2
So the wrong people get the idea that she is involved in this crime and she gets swept up in this whole kind of like criminal underworld that she has no experience dealing with and navigating this again. She's like a nerdy professor and she ends up on the on the run with with him. His name's Anthony Bixler. She ends up on the run with him.

00;40;17;29 - 00;40;42;14
Speaker 2
And they're tied up in this kind of larger mystery that I don't want to give too much away about, but it's a good time. And I, I was drafting this one in like the winter of 20, 23, and I was really into the TV shows, poker face on, on Peacock and the Last of US. So this book, I know those are two very, very different things, but.

00;40;42;25 - 00;40;44;05
Speaker 3
This book kind.

00;40;44;05 - 00;40;52;03
Speaker 2
Of took on the flair of kind of like the protector and passenger vibe of, of the Last of US and like the ridiculous hilarity.

00;40;53;08 - 00;40;53;23
Speaker 3
Of poker.

00;40;53;23 - 00;41;08;17
Speaker 2
Face, like the road trip kind of nature of that story. So it's all a mix of all of those things in one big bag. And it's like the most fun I've ever had writing. And I love it dearly and I'm very, very excited for it to, to be out next spring.

00;41;08;26 - 00;41;12;21
Speaker 1
And then shortly thereafter. You have last night was fun.

00;41;13;13 - 00;41;13;20
Speaker 3
Joy.

00;41;13;26 - 00;41;24;21
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. So I, when I, when I book sold, I I don't know, maybe I was just mistaken, but I was under the impression it was going to come out in like August or September of 20, 25, but it's actually coming out in June.

00;41;25;04 - 00;41;26;10
Speaker 3
So yeah.

00;41;26;29 - 00;41;55;12
Speaker 2
So this one will be out at the end of March and then there's like a month and a half gap before last night was fun comes out and that one is my next romantic comedy and it's very much a mash up of You've Got Mail and the Dating Game set in the world of professional sports. So our main character Amy, is the only female data analyst on like a data analytics team for a professional baseball team.

00;41;55;12 - 00;42;00;09
Speaker 2
So she works with a bunch of guys and she's the only girl. And that's very much drawn from my own life.

00;42;00;16 - 00;42;00;28
Speaker 3
My own.

00;42;00;28 - 00;42;28;02
Speaker 2
Experiences working in the tech industry, always the only girl in every meeting and so she's battling this super bitter rival coworker Gabe for the same promotion and working in the world of men's professional sports like she's always picked last and he gets everything. And when even when they're equally qualified and everything. So they kind of hate each other in real life and then one morning she gets a text message that says Last night was fun.

00;42;28;07 - 00;42;47;04
Speaker 2
And she's like, What is this? You know, I wasn't doing anything last night. And it turns out that the person who texted her had been given had been given a fake phone number on a bad date, and the number just happened to be hers. And so they strike up this anonymous conversation and pretty much end up falling in love with each other through their screens.

00;42;47;16 - 00;42;49;03
Speaker 3
And shocker.

00;42;50;23 - 00;42;51;19
Speaker 2
They are.

00;42;51;21 - 00;42;52;18
Speaker 3
The coworkers.

00;42;52;18 - 00;43;18;12
Speaker 2
In real life. And this one was particularly fun because on top of all that, there's Emma is preparing for her sister's destination wedding. And so she ends up by inviting her mystery texter to be her her plus one to the wedding. And then they finally meet in person. It turns out to be him. And that whole scene of like it's been you, this whole time that was in my head from the very beginning, you know, when I got the idea for the story.

00;43;18;12 - 00;43;41;01
Speaker 2
And that was so much fun to write. So, yeah, it's very very nerdy because there are data analysts, scientists, and it's also like, I wouldn't call it like a sports book. It's like sports adjacent because they're they're not athletes, but they work for a professional baseball team. And I love baseball. I'm a huge baseball fan. So that was why that was incorporated into it.

00;43;42;06 - 00;44;01;14
Speaker 2
And it's yeah, just writing to like texting banter and dynamic was just so delicious and fun. So yeah, I'm working on copy edits for that. They're due in like a week and a half or something, and we just started sending it out for blurbs. So it's getting very like I feel like with my first couple of books, those were the only projects I had going on.

00;44;01;14 - 00;44;19;25
Speaker 2
So every every step in the progression of like a production timeline was like this big thing that I had to like emotionally brace for. And like now they're all just overlapped and happening all the time that I don't really have time to like freak myself out about like, oh my God, it's going out for blurbs, you know, like it just it's just part of the process.

00;44;19;25 - 00;44;29;13
Speaker 2
It's just happening. And like, just sometimes I'll have moments of where like, oh God, like people are reading my book and that's, you know, but it's all in motion.

00;44;29;14 - 00;44;30;23
Speaker 3
It's just how.

00;44;30;23 - 00;44;31;13
Speaker 2
It's going.

00;44;31;23 - 00;44;41;26
Speaker 1
Sports romances are so big. So what made you want to go into sports romance but adjacent and not just go full in on it and kind of be on that line yeah.

00;44;41;26 - 00;44;53;09
Speaker 2
I wanted her to work in an environment where she was the only the only girl, the only female. And I just because I you know, that's been my experience my whole career.

00;44;54;03 - 00;44;54;10
Speaker 3
My whole.

00;44;54;10 - 00;45;15;12
Speaker 2
Professional career. And there's just a lot of things to be said about that experience, I guess. And I think I got the idea for this in like October of 22 and it was playoff baseball season and I was like, I love baseball and it would be fun. To have that be the context. I think maybe, maybe very different.

00;45;15;12 - 00;45;42;08
Speaker 2
Like the very, very original idea. I was going to have them be like professors and she was going to work at a, at a university or something. But I don't know, I had well, I guess this one was a professor and I was like, I can't have professors in all my books. So I moved away from that. And yeah, I don't know, I feel like I feel like it's a little bit risky because like you said, sports romances are so popular and I think there might be a big expectation from readers to have, you know, one of the main characters be an athlete.

00;45;43;16 - 00;45;59;13
Speaker 2
But I didn't I didn't fully do that. And we're being very strategic about like the cover of the book and the title of the book. So we're not really advertising it as a sports romance, I don't think. I mean, I hope readers aren't going to come in and like tear it apart because it's not a baseball love story, although gave them the love interest.

00;45;59;13 - 00;46;03;06
Speaker 2
He used to play baseball. So he is a player. He's just not currently a professional player.

00;46;03;07 - 00;46;04;23
Speaker 3
So there's still.

00;46;04;23 - 00;46;15;18
Speaker 2
Like a huge, huge component of the plot is like their day to day life. About working at a baseball stadium and doing data analytics for the team. And so there's a lot there's plenty of baseball involved. Don't worry.

00;46;16;13 - 00;46;22;12
Speaker 1
Both of those books are under different publishers so how do you handle the communication.

00;46;22;13 - 00;46;22;21
Speaker 2
To.

00;46;22;21 - 00;46;25;06
Speaker 1
Different teams and all the chaos that comes with that?

00;46;25;28 - 00;46;44;16
Speaker 2
It's wild. It's really like I said earlier, I fear that I might have created a monster. Like I, I really do have to like quadruple check. Like, am I referencing the right book? Is this going to the right editor? Am I talking about the right thing, particularly when I had the ramp up to name your price coming as well?

00;46;44;16 - 00;47;09;13
Speaker 2
So I had that publisher in the mix and then I had, you know, I was going through the past pages for big banks. And then I'm also working on the cover. And the copy edits for securing earnings. Last night was fun and it's also it's done Kensington and Avon. And to make things even more confusing and fun, my editor at Avon was my editor at Kensington.

00;47;09;13 - 00;47;30;05
Speaker 2
So the editor who acquired this book, just coincidentally, she left the publisher and moved to Avon and we sold my next romcoms to her. So she's connected to both of my books that are coming out next year. So yeah, I'm always like, Who am I talking to now? Like, What's happening? And I haven't I mean, some day I'm sure I'll make a mistake, but I haven't have it yet and.

00;47;30;28 - 00;47;31;25
Speaker 3
I haven't done the wrong thing to.

00;47;31;25 - 00;47;52;24
Speaker 2
The wrong person yet. But it has like that being said, it has been really interesting to have experiences with different publishers like to see, you know, when I was my first three, books were all the same publisher. So that was my, my only reference point for how this process works. And it's been kind of exciting to see, like for the big fix, I'm going to have physical art.

00;47;52;26 - 00;48;00;05
Speaker 2
I've never had a physical arc on my books before because this one's coming out in hardcover so they're, they're going to make paperback. Our exports. You mean.

00;48;00;05 - 00;48;01;04
Speaker 1
Other than.

00;48;02;06 - 00;48;02;07
Speaker 3
The.

00;48;02;10 - 00;48;03;27
Speaker 2
Giant one? Yeah, that's true.

00;48;03;28 - 00;48;04;21
Speaker 3
There was the Giant.

00;48;04;21 - 00;48;06;06
Speaker 2
Burger, the Staples Project.

00;48;08;03 - 00;48;09;07
Speaker 1
Which I treasure.

00;48;09;25 - 00;48;11;05
Speaker 3
Oh, good, good.

00;48;11;08 - 00;48;14;29
Speaker 2
I'm glad. Yeah. I don't know. Those days might be done. Sorry.

00;48;16;09 - 00;48;17;14
Speaker 3
So it's it's.

00;48;17;14 - 00;48;22;03
Speaker 2
Been it's been a journey, and it'll continue to be kind of it's only going to get wilder when.

00;48;22;29 - 00;48;23;12
Speaker 3
As we get.

00;48;23;19 - 00;48;25;25
Speaker 2
Closer to publication for both of these.

00;48;26;05 - 00;48;34;26
Speaker 1
And last year when we talked, you said you mentioned a thriller, a psychological thriller that was in the mix. What's the latest on that?

00;48;35;14 - 00;49;09;00
Speaker 2
Did I I don't know. I think so. I that's another one of the tricky things about multiple publishers in multiple genres is you kind of get boxed in for which genres you can write. So I do have a thriller that has been like sidelined just out of requirement because I can't I can't do anything with it because I have like like one publisher, you know, as per the option clause in my contract, they have the rights to see the next book I write, like in any genre other than romance because my other publisher has rights to my X romance.

00;49;09;13 - 00;49;30;17
Speaker 2
So and then on top of that, there are very strict timelines like I can't submit a new book to them until like three months after this one comes out. And then this one's like, Oh, you can't submit to them until six months out. Like, this is a whole like chaotic mess and thank goodness I have an amazing agent who can navigate all that and figure it out for me because I it's really complicated.

00;49;30;17 - 00;49;55;16
Speaker 2
And she she's really good at like creating and leveraging not loopholes but like ways around the contracts. She's figured out how to sell in different genres for me, which is very, very cool. But yeah, at this point, if I if I wrote something in any genre, I think it would be behind book to really behind book two in my Avon contract.

00;49;55;16 - 00;50;17;01
Speaker 2
So it wouldn't be able to be pitched to anyone until like next fall, which sucks. But I don't know. I don't I don't know if it would be possible to have a third genre come out unless I did like an indie pub kind of thing if I publish it myself. But even then I think we still have to show it to the publishers and give them a chance to offer on it because they have rights to my next books.

00;50;18;05 - 00;50;23;26
Speaker 2
Yeah, the business side of publishing sometimes is like it really, really well. Just the creative joy of it.

00;50;24;27 - 00;50;26;18
Speaker 3
Where you're like boxed.

00;50;26;18 - 00;50;40;24
Speaker 2
In. But, but still, I know I'm incredibly fortunate and lucky to be in the position to have multiple genres and multiple contracts coming out in the same year. It's amazing, and I don't take that for granted at all. I might, I might question my, my.

00;50;40;24 - 00;50;44;16
Speaker 3
Choices of putting myself in this position, but I am.

00;50;44;27 - 00;50;46;15
Speaker 2
Very excited for the opportunity.

00;50;46;23 - 00;50;50;15
Speaker 1
I'm such a moon like I make my own schedule, but oh my. I made my own.

00;50;52;02 - 00;50;53;22
Speaker 3
Yeah, I know that hit me the hardest.

00;50;53;22 - 00;51;00;11
Speaker 2
I think when, like I said, like, like four days after name your price came out, the big fix went up on that guy and I was like, Oh dear.

00;51;00;23 - 00;51;02;07
Speaker 3
I'm not prepared for this.

00;51;02;15 - 00;51;08;23
Speaker 1
And your Instagram post about it was like, it just went up. But be kind to be gentle. I'm still in the price mode.

00;51;09;18 - 00;51;23;18
Speaker 2
I know. I was like, please don't be mean to this book. I mean, that's it. That's my thought with any book, please don't be mean to it. But I was still feeling incredibly vulnerable after the launch of of name your price to not be even in the mindset at all to be taking feedback on.

00;51;23;25 - 00;51;25;15
Speaker 3
On another book. What keeps.

00;51;25;15 - 00;51;26;07
Speaker 1
You sane.

00;51;26;21 - 00;51;27;22
Speaker 3
During all this?

00;51;28;09 - 00;51;48;04
Speaker 2
Am I saying I don't know if I am saying I definitely learned through all this that I really need to be very like mentally and emotionally present for the parts of this process that bring me so much joy and, you know, satisfaction because there's there's so much of it. The majority of it is just out of my control.

00;51;48;04 - 00;52;08;25
Speaker 2
And, you know, there's nothing I can do about myself. There's nothing I can do about my book getting picked for a book club or getting option for film or it just you just have to let go of all that. And it's really easy to get really down on yourself if you're not picked for those things and afforded those opportunities, especially in the world of social media, where that's all you see is everyone's accomplishments.

00;52;09;01 - 00;52;27;08
Speaker 2
And it can really feel like you're failing at everything because you're not not getting the same things. So I really learned to just kind of like detach from all of that and really take control of what I can control. And that's just writing the next book and just being present for for the drafting, like I said, is my absolute favorite part.

00;52;28;02 - 00;52;41;06
Speaker 2
So that's why I always go back to is getting, you know, being able to do that, being able like I don't want to ever, ever lose sight of the fact that I get paid to make up stories. Like that's the coolest freaking thing ever.

00;52;41;08 - 00;52;41;24
Speaker 3
Like.

00;52;42;22 - 00;52;51;13
Speaker 2
I couldn't dream of a more, more satisfying and exciting job for myself. And I mean, I know I have another job, but that's.

00;52;51;13 - 00;52;52;15
Speaker 3
Just that's so cool.

00;52;52;15 - 00;53;10;22
Speaker 2
That's so cool that like I, I've been able to kind of unlock that for myself. And, you know, getting into the publishing is incredibly difficult. So I definitely don't take it for granted. But yeah, I don't ever want to lose sight of like that's, that's at the root of this is like people want stories that I'm making up with these crazy things.

00;53;10;22 - 00;53;12;25
Speaker 2
I'm pulling out of my head like people want to buy them. Like, that's.

00;53;12;25 - 00;53;14;07
Speaker 3
Nuts. That's so cool.

00;53;15;14 - 00;53;16;19
Speaker 2
Lucky, lucky, lucky.

00;53;17;24 - 00;53;26;29
Speaker 1
Well, that seems like a pretty good note to end things on. But before we end, we got to do the last question. Since this is literary hype, what books are you hyped about right now?

00;53;27;01 - 00;53;48;07
Speaker 2
Oh, man, I've had such a busy summer I'm just like woefully behind on reading. But I did read Liz Moore's new book, The God of the Woods, which was really good. I think I still owe her 20, 20 book, Long Bright River. I still recommend that to people. That's like one of my favorite books ever. So I had really high expectations for this one, and I really enjoyed it.

00;53;48;07 - 00;53;57;11
Speaker 2
I think it was so it was super complex. Like maybe you read it at all. You're nodding like you might have read it on your shelf right there.

00;53;57;24 - 00;53;58;13
Speaker 3
And we just.

00;53;58;13 - 00;54;04;21
Speaker 1
Had our first Barnes Noble Book Club back that's covered with it. So it was good enough to bring back Book Club Knife.

00;54;04;24 - 00;54;25;18
Speaker 2
Well, I won't spoil it, but it's it's very complex in the sense that it's like multiple timelines, multiple POVs, like just a lot going on with the way it comes together at the end. It's incredibly satisfying and it's, it's just really beautifully written and it's cool. It's kind of like a, I guess it's historical fiction because it's set and it's set over several decades actually.

00;54;25;18 - 00;54;37;05
Speaker 2
But yeah, really, really like that one I'm thinking of romances that I've read recently. I see behind me. The backtrack by Aaron La Rosa was really fun. I actually read.

00;54;38;02 - 00;54;40;17
Speaker 3
Oop, awkward moment.

00;54;41;08 - 00;55;04;13
Speaker 2
I read a early copy of this and blurbed it, but this is it just like hits the millennials. Sweet spot, nostalgia sweet spot. So if you want Twilight references, here you go. But it's about this young woman who left her hometown when she was 18 and never looked back. And now she's a very successful airline pilot and she has to go back home.

00;55;04;13 - 00;55;23;23
Speaker 2
It's a small, small town in Georgia, have to go back home to help take care of her grandmother and her. The man who was her best friend in high school still lives there. And it's, of course, super hot and successful. Now to and they always had this big like what if like there was a there's a point where like he kissed her in high school and she was like, oh, we're just friends.

00;55;23;23 - 00;55;42;07
Speaker 2
Like, we're not going to do this. But she's always, always wondered, like, what if I made the decision to be with him? And as she's cleaning out her grandmother's house, she finds her old CD player and listens to this, like, CD that he made her. And every song literally takes her into the past back to when they're teenagers and lets her make a different decision.

00;55;42;07 - 00;56;01;09
Speaker 2
So it's kind of it's like sliding doors, you know, like alternate reality but yeah, the playlist is like you read the name of the song and you just hear it in your head, you know, it's so, so good. Like early 2000s nostalgia and it's nice and steamy because it's the Aaron La Rosa book. And yeah, this is a really, really good time.

00;56;01;23 - 00;56;08;04
Speaker 1
So thanks so much for taking time out of your day to talk about all you're about babies, but especially the new one. Name your.

00;56;08;23 - 00;56;10;08
Speaker 2
Thank you for having me.

00;56;10;21 - 00;56;11;18
Speaker 3
I always exciting.

00;56;11;18 - 00;56;14;17
Speaker 2
To talk to you and hopefully I can see you in person next.

00;56;14;17 - 00;56;14;29
Speaker 3
Year.

00;56;17;12 - 00;56;36;21
Speaker 1
Thanks again to Holly for taking time out of her day to talk about Name Your Price. Last night was fun. The big fix. She's got so many books coming. So definitely keep your eyes peeled on Holly. If you want to follow Holly, the link to do so is down in the description below. And I highly recommend you do because she's wonderful.

00;56;36;21 - 00;56;54;29
Speaker 1
If you want to get any of Holly's books, and I highly recommend you do, they're so much fun. The links to get them are in the show notes for you. And if you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to subscribe to the Literary Hype podcast if you've not done so already and share it with friends. Thanks so much for listening to the literary hype podcast.