62. JENNI L. WALSH: Uncovering remarkable women's stories from history, including Alice Marble

Jenni L. Walsh is the author of "Ace. Marvel. Spy.", which tells the real story of Alice Marble and her journey from pro tennis star to comics writer to World War Two spy. I love the blending of these three areas in this story, and hope you enjoy it too.

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Transcript

00;00;03;25 - 00;00;27;09
Speaker 1
Hi and welcome to Literary Hype. I am Stephanie, your literary hype woman. And today's author conversation is especially fun for me because I love sports, I love comics, and I love World War Two history. So to get a book that touches on all three of those and it's all about the same person who was an actual person who lived it just made me so happy.

00;00;27;13 - 00;00;49;24
Speaker 1
It makes me so, so happy. So today's author is Jenny Walsh. She is the author of Ace Marvel Spy, which is about Alex Marvel, who was a tennis ace and won a bunch of tournaments. She wrote comics and she was a spy in World War Two. This book was made for me. So without any further ado, here's my conversation with Jenny Walsh.

00;00;55;10 - 00;01;04;28
Speaker 1
Welcome to Literary Hype. It's so exciting to have you on to talk about your brand new book, Ace Marvel's Spy So for anyone who hasn't already seen this, plus what it's about, well.

00;01;04;28 - 00;01;34;20
Speaker 2
A smart spy is about a real woman. Her name is Alice Marvel, and her story is just incredible and all forms of the word incredible. Alice Marvel was a number one tennis star in the thirties and forties. While Wimbledon, 18 grand slams. She was the IT girl in tennis. She also got involved in the Wonder Women comics and wrote a column for them, which I thought was amazing that she was highlighting these women from history.

00;01;35;13 - 00;02;06;28
Speaker 2
And then to top it off, as if those two things weren't incredible enough she was approached during the Second World War to go to Switzerland under the guise of playing tennis to spy on an ex lover, which is opens a whole can of worms into emotions and thoughts and what she's going to do when she gets a sponsor land and she comes back in contact with a man who she's always caught up, like who's a man who she's always thought of as the one who got away.

00;02;07;14 - 00;02;09;21
Speaker 1
How did you come across Alice's story?

00;02;10;00 - 00;02;35;20
Speaker 2
I really had such the privilege of writing about various amazing women throughout history, and I get very excited when their story hasn't been fictionalized in a novel. There might be a memoir, there might be nonfiction books. But for Alice, for example, when I came upon her name, just researching other amazing women, I was like, Oh my goodness. Her story hasn't been told in a novel yet.

00;02;35;20 - 00;02;43;02
Speaker 2
And I was like, I need to be the one to tell that. So I love when I can be that author who brings a woman's story just to a broader audience.

00;02;43;13 - 00;02;58;08
Speaker 1
You had a really interesting research process that you talk about in your author's note and how you really just stuck with her book, even though you knew that some of the things that she said in her book weren't accurate. So talk a little bit about your research process and that decision.

00;02;58;12 - 00;03;23;22
Speaker 2
Yes. So there are some nonfiction books that claim that Alice either embellished or remembered incorrectly or made up entirely events from her life that were in her memoir. And I personally didn't see a way to either credit or discredit this and I purposely didn't read the nonfiction books while I was researching and writing because I didn't want that to influence me.

00;03;24;01 - 00;03;45;05
Speaker 2
So I decided to draw a line in the sand that if Alice put it in her memoir, Within Reason, because there was a couple of things where I'm like, Well, that doesn't make sense timeline wise or what have you. If it's in her memoir, I'm going to treat it as gold as my Alice Bible, and I will put it in my book if again, if it makes sense.

00;03;45;12 - 00;04;02;15
Speaker 2
And I thought that was just the best way to honor Alice. And she's just a remarkable woman who a lot of avid tennis players today have never even heard of, even though she's in the hall of Fame, for example. So I just really wanted to honor her story and how she wanted to be remembered.

00;04;02;21 - 00;04;08;01
Speaker 1
Was there a really fun little detail you learned about Alice during your research that didn't make it into the book?

00;04;08;01 - 00;04;29;26
Speaker 2
There is various aspects of Alice's life that I didn't get to put in, such as that she had the singing career she was in films. She designed her own racket. And I mentioned some of it briefly, but I don't have the time in the novel that the space to really bring it to life like I had wanted to.

00;04;30;07 - 00;04;49;22
Speaker 2
I really focused the book on her tennis Rise, Fall and Rise and all of the craziness she had with her tennis career and then also Roberta. So those are my two main two main topics that I really honed in on. But it would have been fun to really get into the whole process of how she designed her own racket.

00;04;50;05 - 00;05;02;08
Speaker 2
I actually saw a photo of it. There's a bookstore grandma who sent me the photo of a racket that she owns, and it was just so cool to see. And I think it would have been really cool to spend more time on that.

00;05;02;13 - 00;05;19;08
Speaker 1
This book is so interesting the way that you craft it with the dual timeline all focused around her and like leading to this one event stuck a little bit about how you decided that that was the best way to tell this story and how you intricately wove those two timelines together.

00;05;19;09 - 00;05;59;17
Speaker 2
Yeah, it was a choice. If I was going to have the two timelines or just tell it chronologically, and I decided to jump back and forth one timeline in the thirties when she's younger and another timeline in the forties when the war is pressing down on the United States. And I decided to do that because the ex lover that she has to spy on, I wanted to discreetly talk about him ahead of time and get people interested in who that could be and the relationship and just different facets of him that if I was going chronological, you wouldn't meet him until that very moment that she meets him.

00;06;00;03 - 00;06;18;02
Speaker 2
So you'll see in the other chapters I refer to him just as like him or like the one that got away. And so it was fun to to just kind of give those teasers for this man who was going to be such a huge part of Alice's life and transformation as a person.

00;06;18;06 - 00;06;23;12
Speaker 1
But I'm a big sports girl, a big nerd, and a big World War two fan. So here we.

00;06;23;13 - 00;06;24;10
Speaker 2
Go. Yeah, it.

00;06;24;10 - 00;06;30;08
Speaker 1
Was like the perfect book for me, and I was so excited. Which of those three aspects, where was your favorite to write?

00;06;30;15 - 00;07;02;16
Speaker 2
So I think I most enjoyed learning about tennis. I'm also a big sports girl. I played soccer my whole life. I went to this university on a scholarship, so soccer was like my domain. So but I knew very, very little about tennis besides, just like the little fun pickup games that I've played over the years. So I had so much fun, just first of all, learning the rules and how to score a match because I had no clue how to do that prior.

00;07;03;00 - 00;07;23;21
Speaker 2
But then I also watched Breakpoint, the Netflix series, and I got so into all of the stories and the people on there whose drama was brought to life. And I have such an appreciation for tennis now, and I'm really glad that I was able to kind of, you know, dip my toe into that world and just really, you know, fall in love with tennis.

00;07;24;06 - 00;07;39;11
Speaker 1
How did you approach the actual writing of the tennis scenes, especially as someone who didn't know tennis going in and making sure that, like, a lot of people consider tennis to be boring. So making sure that the descriptions of the game didn't overpower the narrative.

00;07;39;18 - 00;08;03;02
Speaker 2
I love writing action. I so when I'm writing, my goal is fast paced and a lot of times my critique partner or my editor often told me, like, slow down, Jenny. You know, let us sit in that scene more. Meanwhile, I'm like on to the next scene and that's it. I also write very short chapters and that's just what I put I like to read in short chapters.

00;08;03;02 - 00;08;32;23
Speaker 2
So I write what I like. So I think between the fast paced nature of my writing and the shorter chapters, the tennis scenes are very, very fast paced. And I during those scenes, I tend to use shorter sentences and just really try to pull you in and show her desperation and her mental game and all of those things that an athlete, no matter if you play tennis or if you play table tennis or anything, you can you can relate to.

00;08;32;27 - 00;08;37;14
Speaker 2
So I think that helps when when you can like pull from your own life in a scene.

00;08;37;20 - 00;08;52;22
Speaker 1
One of the things I really loved about Alice and like I identified with her is that she's repeatedly called unladylike and she can't just does not care what other people think of Stark a little bit about her mentality of playing tennis like a man.

00;08;52;28 - 00;09;14;12
Speaker 2
Yeah, she was such a trailblazer. She first started playing baseball and that was like the first time in the novel where she was called on lady. Like her brother Dan was like, OK, can we get you into a sport that ladies play? So he handed her a racket and she loved it. She loved hitting as hard as she can as she could.

00;09;14;12 - 00;09;38;11
Speaker 2
And just she was a strong human being. So she fell into tennis very quickly. She loved that. And then during those times in the early thirties, this is the still kind of blows my mind so a lot of women players weren't supposed to jump when they were playing tennis. When they left the court, it was seen as unladylike.

00;09;38;11 - 00;10;00;13
Speaker 2
And I just it's ridiculous. It's funny, right? And Alice got on to the court and she's like, No, you better believe I'm going to jump. I'm going to slam it. I'm going to do over and like, you know, hits like she just went after it. And then something else that men did during the time was they had a very aggressive net game where they would serve and then get to the net and play at the net.

00;10;00;13 - 00;10;17;21
Speaker 2
And a lot of times women just kind of hung onto the back line and just, you know, hit it back and forth. And I'm sure they were still working very hard, but it was a different game than men typically played. And Alice is like, Oh, I'm going to get to the net. So everything that she was doing, which is like breaking the norm.

00;10;18;00 - 00;10;41;02
Speaker 2
And then, of course, she takes it a step further and she shows up in shorts when all the other women during that time are wearing long flowing skirts. That I'm sure were very difficult to move in. So between her net game, her shorts and just her aggressive love, I'm going to take you down attitude. She really revolutionized the game for women.

00;10;41;08 - 00;10;46;21
Speaker 1
So in the comic side of things, did you read any of her columns this year?

00;10;47;04 - 00;11;12;21
Speaker 2
Yeah, so I read a bunch of her columns because there is a column in the book that Alice writes on the page for readers to experience. So I read a bunch of hers, and I didn't just want to plagiarize and lift and put one of hers in there. So I wrote one as if I was Alice. So I had to be very familiar with just her writing style and her cadence so that I could emulate what she had done.

00;11;12;21 - 00;11;34;29
Speaker 2
So I forget how many there were in total, but there was, I want to say, pushing like 20 different women that she wrote about. And I just think it's incredible. And then full circle for me to be writing about this incredible woman who all who and then herself wrote about incredible women. It was just it was a fun moment.

00;11;35;05 - 00;11;37;18
Speaker 1
Did you have a favorite of any of her columns?

00;11;37;19 - 00;11;51;06
Speaker 2
OK, I'm blanking on her name because this is what I do when I'm on the spot. But the woman. Oh, Juliet Lowe who started it, Girl Scouts. I so I was a Girl Scout growing up, so I just thought that was a cool personal connection.

00;11;51;13 - 00;11;58;02
Speaker 1
How did you go about deciding which of her columns you were going to reference throughout the story to kind of fit the mood?

00;11;58;13 - 00;12;22;08
Speaker 2
OK, so this is a bit of a spoiler, so I don't want to go too far, but there who she writes about corresponds with something that she's going to experience in her own life. So it just kind of worked out perfectly. And I also had a really align the timing because she wrote in a specific order. So I tried to also keep it in that same order.

00;12;22;08 - 00;12;30;09
Speaker 2
So what she was experiencing in her time of her life actually corresponded well with who she was writing about in real life. And that makes sense.

00;12;30;21 - 00;12;46;00
Speaker 1
I loved it when she met the guy from the comics world that they talked about their childish interests of drawing and hitting a ball with that record. What is a childish interest that you have that you want to explore more this year?

00;12;47;04 - 00;12;52;10
Speaker 2
Oh, napping can I can I can I laugh more?

00;12;53;10 - 00;12;55;07
Speaker 1
You know, that is such a movie.

00;12;57;05 - 00;12;59;10
Speaker 2
I would love to that more detail.

00;12;59;21 - 00;13;16;06
Speaker 1
That's a good film. Of course, the other big part of her story is the spying. And you going to get that little early taste of it at the beginning. And I was like, where is this? Is this all? So talk a little bit about introducing her spying before she became a spy.

00;13;16;10 - 00;13;37;10
Speaker 2
People have pointed out that, and rightfully so. The spy portion isn't a huge aspect, like a huge portion of the book. And that is mainly because I used every single detail that Alice put into her memoir. And then I even expand it some. And like there's scenes where she mentions doing something, but she doesn't actually give details of how she does it.

00;13;37;10 - 00;14;02;09
Speaker 2
So I was like, Oh, OK, I'm going to expand that. So I took the spy details as far as I could possibly take it and as many pages as I could possibly include in the book. But I knew readers were going to want more, so that's why I made one. The storylines fully World War Two, and then I tried to hint at it and just put as much leading up to the spies that could be kind of spy like that.

00;14;02;09 - 00;14;12;00
Speaker 2
I could because the. So she's in a program for the president and she has to, like, spy on people during that. So anything I could type up to make more spy like I did.

00;14;13;02 - 00;14;24;01
Speaker 1
Going along with her competitive spirit was all this projection from the military stuff a little bit about how that was a massive drive for her both on the court and in her eventual spying.

00;14;24;08 - 00;14;52;05
Speaker 2
When the war came to be and tennis was put on hiatus, hiatus, she really wanted to give back in some way. She wanted to she was really searching for who she could be, what she could do. And she decided that she was going to become a part of one of the military branches. So she went to the first one and they were so excited to have her because she was like the IT girl.

00;14;52;05 - 00;15;15;26
Speaker 2
Her name preceded her. But then they looked at her health records and there is something in there that was like, Oh, sorry, we can't let you in no matter who you are. So Alice was like, All right, well, on to the next one. So in the same day, she went to every single recruiting office of every single military branch possible and they all said no.

00;15;16;14 - 00;15;41;26
Speaker 2
So I think that was a must have been heartbreaking for Alice, but because she was so dogged with trying to get into the military, she attracted attention from the president, like I said, and he ended up calling her directly and saying, I'm starting this fitness program. Do you want to lead it? So she still was able to get in that way.

00;15;41;27 - 00;16;07;07
Speaker 2
Originally, and then she later is able to play exhibition games at bases. So she was slowly, slowly becoming more involved in a way to give back in the war, which then all the so you get this there's like this wide path that narrowed to her. Then getting approached to spy. So it was like all things led to spying.

00;16;07;24 - 00;16;11;12
Speaker 1
What's the biggest liberty you took in crafting this book?

00;16;11;20 - 00;16;39;11
Speaker 2
That's a hard one. I really tried to be as authentic as I could. I think the biggest celebrity was honestly just filling in gaps. Like I said, a lot of times in memoirs a person will mention something, but they don't mention how they felt exactly or how long they did that particular event or what they did before or after, or so many different facets that a reader would want to know.

00;16;39;11 - 00;16;58;27
Speaker 2
And I can't just, you know, quickly tell what happened. I want to show and really bring it to life. So I think the biggest way in pretty much any of my books that I deviate is when I'm trying to really flesh out a scene. And I have to think, OK, what would make sense for what I know about Alice?

00;16;59;10 - 00;17;13;11
Speaker 1
Alice also goes through a lot of loss in her life throughout this story. So talk a little bit about crafting that grief in a character. And then on the flip side of that, how you take care of your mental health, all writing heavier subjects.

00;17;13;16 - 00;17;42;28
Speaker 2
Yeah, I am horrible at writing grief. I personally am a person who does avoidance I pretend things aren't bad, things don't I? Things aren't happening and it's just I get overwhelmed and my mental health gets dragged down when it's just like an onslaught of bad things happening around the world in my home, you know, in my community. So a lot of times I will avoid, which isn't the best way to do things.

00;17;43;06 - 00;18;03;20
Speaker 2
I mean, I eventually have to address things, but I will avoid at first just my instincts. So when I'm writing and I have to write grief my instinct is to avoid it. And I will just get the scene down as quickly as possible. There's very little emotion. And then I have to go back and put a little bit more in.

00;18;04;05 - 00;18;13;27
Speaker 2
And a lot of times I have to go revisit the scene multiple times and layer in multiple times the emotions until I get it to the point where it's gut wrenching.

00;18;14;26 - 00;18;27;25
Speaker 1
If you just got back from book tour. And one thing I noticed in your post about the book tour is that you did your driving yourself. A lot of authors will fly. So let's talk a little bit about why you chose to drive for yourself.

00;18;27;26 - 00;18;51;19
Speaker 2
I like being in control there was I went to Ala last year and I ended up getting stuck in California for like four extra days because of storms and like all the flights getting canceled. And then when they were back up, everyone was trying to get the same flight. So I was stuck there. So I decided that I wanted to be in control and drive.

00;18;52;06 - 00;19;24;16
Speaker 2
And I even took my own car because there's something about driving a rental car that makes me uneasy because I don't know where everything is and so I decided I was just going to drive, but it ended up being a wonderful experience for most of it. I think the driving went quickly I ended up doing 54 hours of driving, which is an absurd amount of time, but it went very smoothly into my last leg where my car wouldn't start, and I was 4 hours from my last event, which I unfortunately had to cancel.

00;19;24;28 - 00;19;55;22
Speaker 2
I was 12 hours from home and there is a storm approaching where I lived, so I was able to, with the help of Mechanic, get my car started. But he told me that if I turned my car off, I would not be able to get it turned back on. So he told me at first I just follow him to a shop and then he would fix it and then I would be able to go on my way in like a couple of days, which I'm like, No, this totally defeats the whole purpose of me being in control and driving my car.

00;19;56;01 - 00;20;17;15
Speaker 2
If I'm stuck, you know, in Tennessee for another four days. So I decided that I was going to drive the 12 hours home without getting out of my car or stopping or doing anything. And so I had to, like, you know, keep the car on when I was getting gas and do drive through. And then just 12 hours straight through.

00;20;18;18 - 00;20;35;08
Speaker 2
I got home at midnight on Saturday and then the snow started the next morning at like ten. So it actually ended up being a blessing in disguise that I broke down because if I would have gone to my final event and I left after that, I would have been caught in the storm getting home.

00;20;35;17 - 00;20;40;17
Speaker 1
And so wild. Yes, girls don't like to to follow the plan.

00;20;40;29 - 00;20;41;22
Speaker 2
They do not.

00;20;42;23 - 00;20;47;10
Speaker 1
So how did you entertain yourself for these 54 hours of driving?

00;20;47;15 - 00;21;12;10
Speaker 2
I listened to three audiobooks. I actually listened to a marble spy. I don't reread my own books, but I will listen to the audio book because it's almost like an out-of-body experience. And Gail, the narrator, she just did such a phenomenal job. It was I enjoyed myself so much and not because I wrote it, but because of her, like.

00;21;12;11 - 00;21;38;11
Speaker 2
So the audio book is just so well done. I also listened to Throne of Glass, Sarah James, or I might have got that title wrong. I feel like there's so many titles in my mind that meshed together, but that that book, that audio book was like 20 hours. So that made up a lot of time. And then I also listened to, Oh, goodness, as a card, wait for the Lie.

00;21;38;17 - 00;22;00;02
Speaker 2
It was a thriller and it was phenomenal. It was so good. I was completely enthralled. So between those three audio books and the radio and talking on the phone to some author friends, I talked to Ken Brock for a bit. I talked to Victoria Shade, Lee Kelley, Lindsay Currie, Joy Calloway. So I had my author friends calling me as well.

00;22;00;02 - 00;22;01;10
Speaker 2
So I kept myself busy.

00;22;01;23 - 00;22;23;16
Speaker 1
And I definitely have to agree on the Ace Marvel Spy audio book. So like I read the first half with my eyeballs and then listen to the second half and just to get that vibe and it was so well done. Yeah, you touched a little bit on how that is kind of weird. Do you have any process or are you involved in that at all, like picking the narrators or anything like that.

00;22;24;22 - 00;22;52;29
Speaker 2
Yeah, so I've worked with Gail a few times and my publisher approached me about who I want and they sent me some options and Gayle was on there and I like you know, sorry, other narrators I like very briefly looked at that because I see this all girls name. I was like, Oh, I want her. And then there's my next I have another middle grade coming out and they, they asked me if I had any thought and I was a girl.

00;22;52;29 - 00;22;58;10
Speaker 2
I won't go get her please. So now I'm just like pushing her at my team because she's so wonderful.

00;22;58;13 - 00;23;07;12
Speaker 1
Audio books have really blown up. So what's it like for you to see the people are not only picking this up in the physical form, but also listening to it.

00;23;07;27 - 00;23;20;12
Speaker 2
I love that I'm a big audio book listener, so it is just it's cool that it's taken off and that it's just another medium for people to enjoy literature. I think it's great.

00;23;21;00 - 00;23;24;22
Speaker 1
Are you working on anything for the future right now?

00;23;25;09 - 00;23;51;17
Speaker 2
I am. I have actually another release pretty soon, and then the end of October, it was going to be in 20, 26, but it got moved up. So we are full steam ahead towards the next book at this point. It's called Sonora, and it's based on a woman who actually a lot of people know. So, OK, so I'll ask you this question and then a lot of people or either a very enthusiastic.

00;23;51;17 - 00;24;01;28
Speaker 2
Yes. And then other people have no clue, but it's like a 5050. So let's see which side you fall on. So I guess so did you ever see Wild Hearts Can't Be Broken?

00;24;02;10 - 00;24;02;28
Speaker 1
Oh.

00;24;03;09 - 00;24;30;19
Speaker 2
No. OK, so for those that have like they immediately they call their sister or their mother and they're just like jumping up and down. So excited so there was a movie in the nineties called Bad Hearts Can't Be Broken, and it was about a woman named Senora Webster Kabir, and she was a performer who on the back of a horse would dove 45 feet into a tank of water as part of an act.

00;24;31;06 - 00;24;55;11
Speaker 2
And she actually saw I'm from Philadelphia, and she for a while they were in Atlantic City at a place called Steel Pier. So I had always known her story. And so just the fact that she's doing this act of diving horseback 45 feet into a pool is just kind of blows my mind. But during one of the dives there was a moment where the horse could have been hurt.

00;24;55;11 - 00;25;20;05
Speaker 2
But Snorri decided to basically twist the situation so that she would be the one who got hurt instead of the horse. And she hit her eyes. Her face on the water was just like hitting cement. And she went blind and for most people, that would be the end of their career. But not for Sonora. She ends of the diving blind for 11 more years.

00;25;21;11 - 00;25;41;04
Speaker 2
So her story was another one where it was almost seemed fake, but it wasn't. It was real. And I had like that personal connection. Since I'm about an hour from from where she drove. So it was it's been so fun to tell her story and there's more to her than just diving on a horse. So it was really fun to expand on her life.

00;25;41;14 - 00;25;45;12
Speaker 1
What is it about historical fiction that you love researching and writing so much?

00;25;45;14 - 00;26;14;00
Speaker 2
So I was not a history buff growing up, so I part of me thinks it's quite comical where I planned it with my interest as an adult. But I love history and just learning about these incredible people that came before us and I've already kind of mentioned this, but when I come across a woman who is just remarkable, whose story hasn't been told in a novel, I just get so excited because I'm like, OK, she's mine.

00;26;14;00 - 00;26;35;07
Speaker 2
I'm going to do it. I'm going to have, you know, the the honor of bringing her story to a wider audience. And scenarios, one of them where her story hasn't been told in a novel. So I got grabby hands. I feel like everyone is really turned out for this book. It's been wonderful. And it's just the support means so much.

00;26;35;07 - 00;26;54;16
Speaker 2
I mean, a book is made by readers. Every Tuesday. There's like a thousand book that books that come out. So I'm always just so grateful when one of my books is picked up and read and shared and reviewed. We're already on our second printing, which is just amazing. So I'm just thankful and grateful.

00;26;54;24 - 00;26;59;05
Speaker 1
The last question we always ask because this is literary hype. What books are you hyped about right now?

00;26;59;14 - 00;27;30;23
Speaker 2
Oh, I just finished an early copy of The Star of Camp Green by Joy Callaway. It was Fidelman All. She's an amazing writer, and her book is Very Quickly. It's About A Woman, and she's kind of like the Taylor Swift of of the days, and it takes place during the First World War. And this woman, Kayla, she wants to go to the front line to entertain the troops and lift their spirits.

00;27;31;02 - 00;27;56;14
Speaker 2
But first, she kind of has to prove herself in the United States. So she's at a place called Camp Green and she's entertaining the troops. But at one moment she overhears this government secret. So they essentially make her stay in Camp Green instead of continuing her tour and eventually getting to the front line until the information that she's overheard has passed.

00;27;57;08 - 00;28;14;17
Speaker 2
So she's like trapped there. And there's some love interest going on. And it's just such a good story to see, you know, if Kayla is going to get to the front line or maybe she won't, but maybe it won't matter. So it's just her story was just so good. Everyone, it comes out in May, I think.

00;28;15;01 - 00;28;18;11
Speaker 1
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking time to talk to Literary. Hi.

00;28;18;18 - 00;28;20;03
Speaker 2
Thank you so much for having me.

00;28;23;20 - 00;28;40;19
Speaker 1
Thanks again to Jenny for hanging out with me and talking all things Ace Marvel's Spy. If you want to get a hold of this book, which you should, it's fascinating the links to this are in the show notes for you. If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to subscribe to the literary podcast. Give us some stars and share it with a friend.

00;28;40;27 - 00;28;43;17
Speaker 1
Thanks so much for listening to the Literary Hype podcast.