72. JULIE SOTO: Diving into Romantasy & YA Thrillers with Rose in Chains & The Thrashers

Julie Soto is back, and this time, we're talking all about her two new books, The Thrashers and Rose in Chains. Julie made her name in the romance book space, but now, she's tackling YA thrillers and Romantasy. We're talking all about these new challenges, plus Interview With A Vampire love and so much more.

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Forget Me Not
Not Another Love Song

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Rose In Chains
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Not Another Love Song

Transcript

00;00;04;24 - 00;00;21;20
Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to the Literary Hype podcast. I am Stephanie here, literary hype woman. And today's guest is a returning author, which makes me so happy that she is willing to come back on the show, but also to get to see how much she has blown up since the first time she was on the show, too. Now is incredible.

00;00;21;25 - 00;00;41;29
Speaker 1
I'm talking about Julie Soto, whose new book, The Thrashers, is her Y.A. Thriller debut, but that's not the only genre debut she's doing. She made her name in RomComs with Forget Me Not and Not Another Love Song. So now she's got the Thrashers, and then later this year she's going to go into the romantic space with frozen chains.

00;00;42;05 - 00;00;52;04
Speaker 1
So we have so much to talk about as if we didn't already, because we're both talkers, but we have two books to talk about. So there's a lot to cover. So here's my conversation with my friend Julie Soto.

00;00;57;19 - 00;01;01;08
Speaker 1
Welcome back to Literary Hype. It's so exciting to have you back.

00;01;01;27 - 00;01;06;12
Speaker 2
I am so excited to be here. Second well, third timer. Really?

00;01;06;25 - 00;01;11;19
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, and if you want to come to the Buffy experience or.

00;01;12;00 - 00;01;13;04
Speaker 2
I do want to count it.

00;01;14;19 - 00;01;24;26
Speaker 1
Buffy experience was great and we we'll yeah, we're already on Buffy. Yeah. So this feels like a pipeline that we need to talk about the Buffy two interview with the vampire pimp.

00;01;25;08 - 00;01;53;07
Speaker 2
Oh, man. We could just sit here and talk about an interview with the vampire the entire session today that would make my day but yeah, I, yeah, I and also, they just announced like today that they're going to be doing crazy marketing for season three, like, looking for, like, brand and advertisers, the like, and, like, doing like pop up.

00;01;53;07 - 00;02;03;20
Speaker 2
Like, it reminds me of the Buffy pop up thing that we went to. They're going to do like pop up locations and stuff for the vampire Stats World Tour.

00;02;03;27 - 00;02;06;16
Speaker 1
They've done it in San Diego, so it makes sense.

00;02;06;21 - 00;02;08;08
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.

00;02;08;25 - 00;02;14;13
Speaker 1
So for anyone who is not watch interview with a vampire, give them your pitch on why you think that they should start.

00;02;15;07 - 00;02;48;09
Speaker 2
Interview with the Vampire on AMC and AMC. Plus is a TV adaptation of the Anne Rice books. For the Anne Rice fans, they are taking the majority of the Anne Rice canon of vampire books into in into this show. So so you are getting Easter eggs, that of things that you read when you were 13. And then for new viewers, it is complete.

00;02;48;10 - 00;03;08;21
Speaker 2
It feels completely modern. It feels completely new. It does not feel like the Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise movie. It feels so fresh and interesting and I think it's a perfect show. End of sentence, I guess.

00;03;11;06 - 00;03;15;27
Speaker 2
But Season one is currently on Netflix, so really, I don't know what you're waiting for.

00;03;17;06 - 00;03;22;12
Speaker 1
OK, I haven't got into it yet, but I've seen like a post about it. I'm like, if I don't start this, Julie will tell me.

00;03;24;08 - 00;03;33;08
Speaker 2
I just, you know, I just don't leave you alone. I even have talked to two people who have said I started it and it's not for me. And they've both promised me they're.

00;03;33;08 - 00;03;33;24
Speaker 1
Going to give.

00;03;33;24 - 00;03;33;28
Speaker 2
It.

00;03;34;13 - 00;03;39;05
Speaker 1
Check the. How did your love of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

00;03;39;17 - 00;04;25;26
Speaker 2
Prepare me yeah. I've I was hugely obsessed with Buffy. I still am. I never really thought of it as a love for vampires, which is really funny, but I think that's only because I enjoyed Twilight, but was not overwhelmingly obsessed with it like so many of our generation were. And so I. I just. I feel like the, the allegories that are told, the metaphors for human life and human struggles that are told through the vampires in both of those shows.

00;04;27;14 - 00;04;50;29
Speaker 2
And, you know, on Buffy specifically, the first couple of seasons were like high school as hell. But like, the metaphor is know, their high school was built on the mouth to hell. Like, it's, you know, it's like there are demons in their high school. So it's like that was a very fun metaphor that carried you through so many seasons of that show.

00;04;52;16 - 00;05;24;02
Speaker 2
But with Interview with the Vampire, it's like life is lonely, you know, and it's like and if you live forever, then you're lonely forever. And it's just like, I feel so seen so I guess I guess that's where a lot of my vampire love stems from is just the kind of beautiful storytelling you can do. Through monsters and metaphors.

00;05;24;02 - 00;05;32;10
Speaker 2
And, you know, especially when you play with things like, who's the most monstrous monster and is it the human? You know?

00;05;32;12 - 00;05;46;12
Speaker 1
So fandom is a big part of your life and that's how you got into writing. So let's talk. Roseann Chains, which just coming up in July, this is a fan fiction vibe. Obviously.

00;05;47;01 - 00;05;51;29
Speaker 2
The vibes are immaculate vibes are vibing, the vibe surviving.

00;05;52;18 - 00;05;56;21
Speaker 1
So what made you want to get into the Dominy fanfic world?

00;05;57;00 - 00;06;30;29
Speaker 2
Jeremiah Knee? I started reading Drake on her mini fan fiction in high school, and I started writing a long time after that. So I was really just enjoying the fandom. The fan works, I should say, at that time. And and I mean, there's always something that we love about enemies to lovers or or people from different backgrounds or people with unique misunderstandings of each other.

00;06;30;29 - 00;07;03;26
Speaker 2
And I kind of always boil it down to the Darcy and Elizabeth trope. It's not necessarily always enemies to lovers, but it's a sense of opposites of attract that I always am attracted to. And on top of that, a misunderstanding between the opposites, you know, and, and I and that's just what I love about all great that all, all of the romances that I enjoy have a sense of that.

00;07;05;12 - 00;07;10;28
Speaker 2
A lot of the huge star crossed you know, ideas that I enjoy have a lot of that, too.

00;07;11;04 - 00;07;19;18
Speaker 1
There are many names throughout this book that can be tied back to fandoms. Was that intentional? Or happy accidents?

00;07;20;27 - 00;07;44;27
Speaker 2
Some of them are intentional. A lot of them were, hey, if someone wants to think I was tying back to the Supernatural fandom, that's fine with me, you know? But a lot of them just felt right. And also, I mean, specific there's a character named Cordelia, and for me, I just thought it was great that I had a Zander in the last book.

00;07;46;03 - 00;08;27;28
Speaker 2
And I'll just keep I'll keep going until we find a willow. But but for me, I actually appreciated more the Shakespearean connotation of Cordelia and going, you know, back into where some of those names became popular in the first place. But yeah, not so many Easter egg type. Like, it doesn't it's not a, it's not a hint for the character if that makes sense, you know, but if it feels like it's a if it feels familiar too to you, then I think that's nice.

00;08;28;17 - 00;08;41;04
Speaker 1
Going through it. Like, OK, we got Rory from Gilmore Girls Winchester ever more because I know you're Swifty, you could yeah. Just like who is she here doing things in front of my face.

00;08;41;11 - 00;08;47;02
Speaker 2
I can't wait for the good reads reviews that are like she has zero skills and name in things.

00;08;49;04 - 00;08;54;26
Speaker 1
This is why we don't get on good reads reviews. No. Well, they're just dumpster fires at this point in half the time.

00;08;55;07 - 00;08;55;19
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;08;56;01 - 00;09;07;10
Speaker 1
So this really is the year of Germany with frozen chains. Got the irresistible urge coming out as well. I think there's a throw out, remember? What is it about this fandom that is blowing up right now?

00;09;07;19 - 00;09;52;23
Speaker 2
I feel like it's less about what? What's popular right now. And more about the communities that that were surrounding these works while they were being written. In a way, the the support and the and the sense of really companionship between readers that kind of came about. I like I said, I've been reading fan fiction oh, we're going to date ourselves almost 20 years and I was a very young high schooler I was practically four.

00;09;52;27 - 00;10;24;11
Speaker 2
I was reading fan fiction when there were not Facebook groups to join and get recommended actions or there was not Twitter or TikTok where you find little Subcommunities, there was not a Reddit. There probably was read it honestly, but like LiveJournal, like, like, you know, you found you had to cruise live journals to find the things that you like, but there's there so I wasn't in a community when I first started reading.

00;10;24;11 - 00;11;03;25
Speaker 2
By the time I started writing, there were communities, and I think the thing that's really clicking these days is the sense of people saying, You should read this, I read this, I wanted to walk into traffic, so therefore you have to read it you know, like it's like and that's how we behave about our favorite books to like, that's how, you know, that's, that's the same kind of things that we, we do all the time in traditionally published world readers there.

00;11;03;25 - 00;11;31;05
Speaker 2
So I think it's I think it's a lot of people being more open about talking about the things that they're reading that some may think some may see as frivolous or think of as, you know, just for women or or things like that. And just and just people are just starting to shrug and say, OK, I'm going to make a ticktock and it's going to have 4 million views you know?

00;11;31;05 - 00;11;59;18
Speaker 2
And it's like, oh, look, a community. So I think and I think there's a kind of a shift to with Rebecca Rose popping and the sense of like, what was that article? Someone did a really nice piece on Rebecca Rose, but the title of it was like Dragon Smut or something. And everyone was like, but like, I know that's a clickbait for everyone.

00;11;59;22 - 00;12;25;20
Speaker 2
But like, I don't think that was what the article even said. Like, you're now I now I don't want to read what you're saying, you know? And so it's just that kind of sense of people are ready to start talking about the things they love and they're not going to be accepting people who want to just refer to it as something that only women love.

00;12;26;03 - 00;12;31;20
Speaker 2
Only, only women enjoy this type of thing over here.

00;12;32;06 - 00;12;46;01
Speaker 1
So for anybody who hasn't seen Rosanne Chains floating around their social media, which a lot rock are you living under because it's everywhere. Everyone was demanding that book from the publisher as soon as our exit. Yeah. What's the story about?

00;12;46;23 - 00;13;18;28
Speaker 2
Oh, I don't know. I I truly I truly still don't have the elevator pitch down, so we're going to ramble for a second. It takes place in a fantasy world, much more much more Westeros and, and like like a different place from us. Narnia, you know, without a connection to I guess Narnia has the connection because there's a wardrobe, but but like without a connection to our world.

00;13;18;28 - 00;14;10;24
Speaker 2
So it takes place in a completely different fantasy world and is about a two countries who have had kind of a tempestuous past and a new war sparks between them recently. And we meet up with Briony, our protagonist. She is the princess of one of the kingdoms. Her brother is now the king. And he and basically we meet her on the last day of the final battle where she watches her brother die and she realizes that she's lost like their country has lost and she doesn't know even how many people are left at this point.

00;14;11;11 - 00;14;35;29
Speaker 2
So we go from this moment of kind of anticipation and hope, thinking that we got this in the bag to realizing we're the losing side and we have now become spoils of war in that same way. So in this world, there's two different types of magic. She practices mind magic and the quote unquote bad guys practice heart magic.

00;14;36;24 - 00;15;08;10
Speaker 2
And it's a bit of a struggle because part magicians can also take on I call them like human familiars. Like when you can connect with an animal and it can boost your power, you can connect with the human but their idea for the remaining mind magicians of Brian, these people, is to capture them and to drain their magic, to boost their own powers.

00;15;08;10 - 00;15;30;29
Speaker 2
So she is sold off at auction to someone she used to go to school with who she also had a crush on and he never knew. And that sounds really petulant. Like sounds really like coy. When I say it like that, it's a little more mature. There are 25 like but there's still you know there's there's a history between them is what I'll say.

00;15;30;29 - 00;15;43;06
Speaker 2
Right so that that was a really long elevator ride. It took us all the way up to Mars but but the elevator pitch will get shorter eventually I think.

00;15;44;08 - 00;15;45;25
Speaker 1
Have got time. We got time.

00;15;45;25 - 00;15;46;19
Speaker 2
Time that time.

00;15;47;21 - 00;16;04;27
Speaker 1
Look, as you talked about with the spoils of war thing, there are some pretty heavy themes in this book. Including there's some some rapes, some selling people off at auction. What made you want to include those in this story and how did you process through them? To keep yourself sane?

00;16;05;01 - 00;16;54;05
Speaker 2
I first started working on this story you know, 20, 18 about and we and that was a completely different time to where we are right now. And yet in some ways it feels very familiar to where we are now. And in some ways did we actually leave 20, 18. So it was post MeToo, it was shows like The Handmaid's Tale were popular not only because they were well done but because you know, it's not only it's funny, it's not only Handmaid's Tale, it was popular but true crime became very popular as well.

00;16;54;09 - 00;17;19;09
Speaker 2
And there was, there's just this kind of sense sometimes of, of people disaster prepping in certain ways. You know, I still remember the scene in Handmaid's Tale where they flashback to the first day that what's called took over and what's called it Pan Am. But it's not.

00;17;20;27 - 00;17;22;03
Speaker 1
All the same at this point.

00;17;22;04 - 00;17;48;23
Speaker 2
It's all the. Yeah, right. And like and like her credit card was declined or specifically the cashier wouldn't accept a card from her because she was a woman. And like she was confused as like she was confused, like we'd be confused. And then within 30 seconds, there was like a riot outside and, you know, and it was I just remember like, yeah, yeah, man.

00;17;50;07 - 00;18;37;13
Speaker 2
And so there's, there's echoes, there's echoes everywhere, really. There's also like, I think there's, I think there's also a reason why we're still so interested in The Hunger Games universe as well. You know, the, the movies were barely cold in the cold and the cans by the time I was, you know, writing, writing this. So I'd say these themes are often included in war stories or fantasy fantasy war stories.

00;18;37;13 - 00;19;17;16
Speaker 2
You know, those themes were also evident in the Game of Thrones books and TV show though we don't always agree with how they were depicted or glorified and all those types of things. So for me, I think it was really interesting to play with what, you know, what actually happens when people come to power who felt like they should have had it, and that the people who there are specific people who kept them from having that power and how do you treat those people once you have it?

00;19;18;16 - 00;19;44;02
Speaker 2
And I think that's something that we read about all the time in our fiction. And so I was I was interested in that world of danger. But specifically, I credit a lot of Handmaid's Tales dystopian ideas and being being on our TVs. Presently, when I was writing this in that way.

00;19;44;11 - 00;19;53;22
Speaker 1
As someone who's known for romance, what was it like for you to explore this other world and build magic systems for the first time on page?

00;19;54;06 - 00;20;38;15
Speaker 2
Crazy, crazy, man. Definitely. You know, I one of the reasons that I love fan fiction is because you can play in you can play in a sandbox you can you can play with magic without needing to build it from the ground up. I was surprised by how clear certain structures were to me already because of the worlds that I that I came from and was used to but building it from the ground up was definitely a a new experience.

00;20;38;15 - 00;21;09;16
Speaker 2
And you you kind of hesitate a lot to to to declare anything. It's very funny. Sometimes you're like, well, am I the God of this world? Or aren't I, you know, like like I can make something up. Can't I? You know, and you think of the the TV shows that, you know, suddenly Buffy has a sister and you're like, I'm with you, you know, like, there's you know, there's there's things that you accepted because the show or the book gave it to you in the right way.

00;21;09;29 - 00;21;16;19
Speaker 2
So yeah, that was a lot to to play with building. Building something from the ground up.

00;21;16;24 - 00;21;22;20
Speaker 1
Did you feel like you ever put yourself into a corner and had to figure out how to get out of it because of some magic rule?

00;21;23;06 - 00;21;49;11
Speaker 2
All the time. There's actually like a lot some of the world building in this book was based solely on how do I make this one specific scene work? And I can't tell you what scene it is, but like I was like, how do I specifically make that work? And then I built out everything around it, basically. Yeah, all the time.

00;21;49;11 - 00;21;55;10
Speaker 2
And I'm in a corner right now, you know, I ooh.

00;21;55;24 - 00;21;58;06
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Hints. I feel like I feel like.

00;21;59;10 - 00;22;03;02
Speaker 2
I feel like we're kidding. We're kidding. Neuroses yeah.

00;22;05;09 - 00;22;10;00
Speaker 1
Neuroses, hints, writing. It's all the same thing, right? I mean, there's no real difference.

00;22;10;13 - 00;22;11;03
Speaker 2
Exactly.

00;22;11;21 - 00;22;27;23
Speaker 1
But this is a new genre for you, and it's not the only new genre that you're exploring because you've got a why a thriller stuck a little bit about getting out of the romance world and testing out all these different genres and any challenges you face in trying these new things.

00;22;27;23 - 00;23;00;02
Speaker 2
Yeah, I feel like there's there's got to be romance in everything I write, and obviously romance books are their own genre. But I was writing I've been writing the Thrashers for a long time. They were my first original characters. So that's why they're so very dear to me. I the Thrashers was written before, forget me, not the I was plotting it before, not another love song, you know?

00;23;00;24 - 00;23;49;01
Speaker 2
So these are my children and but I have so many young adult thriller ideas that if forget me not hadn't sold, I would have pivoted to young adult like I would be a young adult author so it's it's they are three completely different genres and with Y.A. and they're it's a different age range too. Right. So but I don't consider it as new extensions of me I feel like it's all it's all encompassed and the things I want to tell and the stories I want to I want to share.

00;23;49;01 - 00;24;21;21
Speaker 2
So it's interesting. I think some of the challenges come from reaching reaching new audiences is going to be a fun new challenge. One of the strangest challenges is like like getting the the the the getting authors to blurb your book. But like from the correct genre, like I do Alley Hazelwood's Britain way like she'll write me a blurb.

00;24;21;21 - 00;24;53;00
Speaker 2
That's fine. We're besties. But like she hasn't written way thrillers. And so then there is and then with fantasy, it's like Christina and Lauren are happy to give me a blurb, but but gee, I wish I knew so-and-so you know? And just like, it's such a fascinating thing of, like, I'm back in freshman year trying to reach out to all the seniors to see if they'd have time to read my book.

00;24;53;00 - 00;25;23;21
Speaker 2
Please. And it's like, I've already done this. I've already been a debut author I don't want to do it again. So those are the very funny things that you don't think about. I think what else? Thankfully, thankfully, when it comes to the Y.A., I, there was never a time where the editors or the marketing people we ever had to have a discussion about like some of this is reading too mature.

00;25;24;05 - 00;25;57;24
Speaker 2
Like, they let me have the cursing, they let me have the drug use, the mentions of of abuse and that book mentions of sexual situations obviously there's no sexual content on page. That's a different genre. But you know, there wasn't that challenge in the Y.A., which I think is fascinating that that just didn't come up. But I'm very glad that I was trusted with those curse words.

00;25;58;09 - 00;26;26;29
Speaker 2
And I was listening to the audiobook. I was like, Wow, they're cursing every which way, aren't they? I forgot I think it's just kind of the reaching new audiences and, and coming in to a new genre. And it's also just the hope the romance readers even if they're like, I only read the romance, like, would you consider picking up the Thrashers and gifting it to someone if that's the case?

00;26;27;10 - 00;26;40;17
Speaker 2
You know, like, I hope that I hope that my readers are interested in either all parts of my career or supporting me. So, you know, it's a very interesting tightrope to walk in that way.

00;26;40;29 - 00;27;00;18
Speaker 1
Which was very interesting when of the Thrashers were given out you all fast and I told you I was in line and you're like, But do people even care? So I didn't go with you to prove to you that we were all so excited. What was. Yeah, you to see that response from your first kind of branching out into a new space?

00;27;01;02 - 00;27;07;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, that was great because that was also early. Was that November yeah. That was the yeah.

00;27;07;22 - 00;27;08;07
Speaker 1
November.

00;27;08;22 - 00;27;38;03
Speaker 2
That was like the first time the like I didn't even have arcs yet, you know, and like I was just so I was just grateful too, because that was it's a young adult space, you know, it's for young adult readers. So it's not like the subsection of young adult was infiltrated by my romance readers that day. Like, no, those people were there for young adult and you know, so I was that was really awesome.

00;27;38;03 - 00;27;42;23
Speaker 2
That was a really great house. A really great day. Thank you, Stephanie.

00;27;44;25 - 00;27;53;10
Speaker 1
So with the Thrashers has come all of this excitement. So for anybody who hasn't already seen this again, what rock are they living under? But what is this book about this one?

00;27;53;10 - 00;28;33;00
Speaker 2
I have a slightly better elevator pitch. Here we go. Let me center myself. It is about a high school friend and clique who find themselves in the middle of a police investigation after a student at their high school who desperately wanted to join their clique dies and through a series of increasingly spooky events, Jody, our protagonist, has to fights to prove her friend's innocence while also wondering if Emily, the girl that died, is truly done with them.

00;28;33;00 - 00;28;40;07
Speaker 2
Yet from beyond the grave. So, yeah, it's a little spooky.

00;28;40;20 - 00;28;44;16
Speaker 1
It is a little spooky. And it starts on a pretty hefty note.

00;28;45;00 - 00;28;45;16
Speaker 2
Yes.

00;28;46;23 - 00;28;52;24
Speaker 1
But then we shift into Jody Spivey and Jody's ideal Friday night. Sounds so lovely.

00;28;53;06 - 00;28;55;01
Speaker 2
It's my ideal Friday night. Yeah.

00;28;55;02 - 00;28;57;26
Speaker 1
I was going to ask what your ideal Friday night is, but clearly.

00;28;58;28 - 00;29;00;18
Speaker 2
Yeah, I don't see.

00;29;00;18 - 00;29;01;04
Speaker 1
Yourself.

00;29;01;15 - 00;29;39;06
Speaker 2
At just Netflix and Ben and Jerry's. I don't understand what anyone else would be up to on a Friday. Yeah, I, I, I actually had an interesting talk with one of with my editor for the wire. She never wanted me to change anything about the prolog, but we were talking about it in terms of something else, and it, it says on page one basically that there's suicide in this book, and there are content warnings available or I have a whole list of them on my website, and I believe the final text would be printed with a content warning.

00;29;39;15 - 00;30;10;18
Speaker 2
But like, you know, it'll be it'll be explicit for you. But like I mentioned to my editor, like there's a context warning on page one because it's mentioned pretty, pretty quickly that that there is a suicide in this book. So and it was very interesting. My editor was like, I've never thought of it that way, actually, that it's you you get to choose to close the book for the people who go to the bookstore and read the first page, see if they like it.

00;30;11;01 - 00;30;20;29
Speaker 2
You don't have to buy it, you know, like it's it's the I wasn't going to hide what the trigger warnings were going to be for that book.

00;30;21;06 - 00;30;23;12
Speaker 1
What was your initial spark for this story?

00;30;23;17 - 00;30;57;00
Speaker 2
I went to this really interesting place called High School. I I know I have been writing this story in my head since I was 17, 18. I had a really interesting experience of I went to an all girls high school, which has a very different form of popularity than a coed high school. I think because there's also like there was also this sense of like, why are you wearing makeup?

00;30;57;00 - 00;30;58;14
Speaker 2
Where are you going after school?

00;31;00;20 - 00;31;12;08
Speaker 2
You know? And it's like, you know, if if a boy walked on to campus for any reason, you know, like like it's like everything stops.

00;31;14;09 - 00;31;39;22
Speaker 2
And it's not only because it's just like teenage girls or boys crazy. It's more like what is that? What are you doing here? Get out. You know, like, it's a little bit of both. So I had that experience but then I also was doing theater since I was a child, since I was seven. So I grew up doing a community theater company.

00;31;39;22 - 00;32;22;04
Speaker 2
So that's outside of doing theater through the high school. So it's a whole different set of people, a whole different set of dynamics and I had the interesting perspective of in my last years of high school being one of the leads being, you know, seen as talented, seen as someone with value in that community. Right. And so there was a sense of being in a click over there and a popular group and fates that weren't, that weren't us had decided who gets to be in the group.

00;32;22;04 - 00;32;50;10
Speaker 2
You know, the casting gets to say who hangs out on Friday nights, you know, like it's, it's a very it was just such a very interesting way for people to come together and so I had this experience of, no, I was not popular, I was not pretty, I was not rich, I was not sexually active. You know, like I but I was in the click.

00;32;50;15 - 00;33;17;04
Speaker 2
I was, I was in, in the fun group. So and that kind of sense of like, I'm not Jody feels like she doesn't really understand why she's in the popular group, except that she is longtime best friends with the most popular guy at school. Who sees her as nothing more than a friend, even though that's she wants more with him.

00;33;17;04 - 00;33;51;14
Speaker 2
So so I had I had those kind of dynamics in my head in terms of what what kind of story I felt was a little more unique to the experiences that I had. But on top of that, there's this there's this idea of of bullying and and and cruelty that high school has that I think we all are still interested in to this day.

00;33;51;27 - 00;34;14;07
Speaker 2
We you know, a lot of shows were more popular about ten years ago, like Pretty Little Liars and then going as far back as Veronica Mars, but and the Heathers and going all the way back and just all the fun stuff. But we they're classics for a reason. And I think I was interested in putting my own twist on them.

00;34;14;15 - 00;34;32;15
Speaker 1
You definitely feel Jodi's otherness throughout this book, like she's constantly feeling like she's not quite in the Thrashers, like she might get thrashed. Yeah. A little bit about crafting a friend that doesn't quite right. Feel like she's all the way in the group with these popular kids.

00;34;32;20 - 00;34;59;03
Speaker 2
You know, I wanted her to feel as close to the reader as possible, you know, the most the most universal experience. And I think I think a lot of people there's I think there's probably people who who float through the world and when they say when someone says, OK, break up into pairs, they don't immediately like like peripheral vision just because you know, like, OK, well, what are we going to do here?

00;35;00;10 - 00;35;51;23
Speaker 2
There are some people who don't have those types of worries. Bless them. And they but I think a lot of us immediately know if you're in a group of three or a group of five, there's going to be a problem at some point, even if it's as simple as you're in a group of six and we need to get into a car and now we need two cars and now we need three and three or we need two and four and I know exactly who I don't want to be a two with while everyone else is a four and you know, and there's and I feel like I just wanted Jodi to have as universal

00;35;51;23 - 00;36;19;06
Speaker 2
of experience of those types of things as possible. And I think even no matter how close we are to people or what kind of relationships each, you know, each person has with each other, in a group of four, a group of five, there's always going to be a sense of like, I'm not positive. I think I'll probably be picked last for dodgeball today.

00;36;19;11 - 00;36;40;11
Speaker 1
That sense of otherness plays well into the whole mystery aspect, because Jodi doesn't fully know what's going on, especially with Luke. We have Zach are our main man. And there's a part where you write about like he was wasn't laughing at them, but he thought it was she was funny and like so he's a good, bad guy. Yeah.

00;36;40;16 - 00;36;46;04
Speaker 1
Like walking that line of. Yeah, keep him likable. But also, he's still high school trash.

00;36;46;11 - 00;37;19;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, they're all high school trash. You know, I feel like I feel like that was that was the hardest thing is is I think we all know a Zach Thrasher, and we probably had a moment of time where we were a bit in love with him. And I don't even mean to use gendered terms. We know a person who was Zach Thrasher like and that we we had feelings for that person or at least affection for them, even if those feelings weren't sexual.

00;37;19;09 - 00;38;05;08
Speaker 2
And we and I think trying to craft that into a universal experience was really hard because you don't get to see in this book why, you know, because they met in second grade. So we were walking into an established best friendship. And I think getting to getting to establish that while also making sure that Jodi feels like she's on the back foot with him was a really delicate balance to walk and I think I think there's so much more to say about that friendship to that either didn't make it on the page or or just has a whole back story to itself.

00;38;05;15 - 00;38;29;05
Speaker 2
Jody and Zach are such a core of the book that was that was probably one of the hardest to write because like I said, you probably knew your own Zach Thrasher and you had to kind of. And so for me, I had to compile my Zach Thrashers into, into this person. And you find all the pieces that are the most lovable of each of those people.

00;38;29;19 - 00;38;33;28
Speaker 2
And then the pieces that are most abhorrent of each of those people as well.

00;38;34;10 - 00;38;38;13
Speaker 1
Since this is a thriller and things have to progress.

00;38;38;13 - 00;38;40;23
Speaker 2
Through so.

00;38;40;28 - 00;38;54;12
Speaker 1
That you get a conclusion that is satisfying based on the information that you have previously read, did you have to plot this out or was this like a pants and then rewrites? How did you come about crafting this?

00;38;54;27 - 00;39;29;16
Speaker 2
I focused on craft with this book more than any other thing that I've written because I was writing it while querying and we probably talked about this in the Forget Me, not podcast, but I was querying Not Another Love song to get an agent got my agent wrote Forget Me Not, and then we sold Forget Me Not. So it's just a lovely happy accident that my second book was ready to go.

00;39;31;00 - 00;39;54;08
Speaker 2
So the pros and the cons of that were that I was I've been working on writing Thrashers for a very long time and then got to polish it last year when it when a or two years ago when a normal person would be writing their second book that needed to sell because they had the one that they sold.

00;39;55;21 - 00;40;21;15
Speaker 2
So so the crafting of it, a lot of it happened a long, long time ago and a galaxy far away. So, you know, I was watching a lot of craft videos. My friend Alexa Dunn is a really excellent young adult thriller writer, and she has an entire YouTube channel of just free advice. And I was watching a lot of her content.

00;40;22;09 - 00;40;40;23
Speaker 2
And, you know, there's a lot of things that can be done with thrillers you can like, quote unquote write the story backwards and like start with the like in a normal case where there's a murder, it's like you you think you know who you know who the body is and who the killer is. And then you just, like, work backwards.

00;40;40;23 - 00;41;06;09
Speaker 2
And then there's other stories where you feel like you want to just discover it along the way. And I say, I probably knew about 75% of it before sitting down to write there are a couple twists and turns that are actually extremely crucial to the story that were not discovered until very late in the game on my end.

00;41;06;09 - 00;41;24;26
Speaker 2
So but that but but I like I cherish those realizations that I had the time the book wasn't sold. I wasn't on deadline for it, like I had the time to give myself to to to work towards those.

00;41;25;08 - 00;41;34;23
Speaker 1
And a little detail I noticed is the side character is named Nikita. Is that a nod you cover artist.

00;41;35;00 - 00;41;56;06
Speaker 2
And then as a nod to my gorgeous lovely Nikita Jobson, who has done all of my covers except for the Thrashers, which was kind of sad. I was like, but she's in it. But we all know that why a covers and thrillers specifically have their own vibes. And I was astounded by how much I loved the the Thrashers cover.

00;41;56;15 - 00;42;25;13
Speaker 2
Both the UK and the US. Yeah. Nikita Jobson is my longtime friend and collaborator from the drama Any Fandom. And I put I put friends, names and books. A lot of times, Ma from Forget Me, Not Jacob from Not Another Love Song are both Dear Friends of mine. And so I really wanted I just felt like I wanted Nikita in, in in in there somewhere.

00;42;25;13 - 00;42;36;28
Speaker 2
And none of it's funny because usually it's like none of the personality or the appearance is correct, but it's just giving a name to, to to someone that's dear.

00;42;37;08 - 00;42;42;29
Speaker 1
And definitely was like, this is not a Nikita cover. It was this really. Well, fine. If she can do the covers, she's going to be in it.

00;42;43;12 - 00;42;57;05
Speaker 2
Fine. Yeah. No, I just want it. I just. It felt right. It was. I also was a huge fan of the television show, Nikita, and and so there was a sense of there is a sense of that, too, with that character.

00;42;57;08 - 00;43;08;24
Speaker 1
So in the acknowledgments, you shut out your page, Lucy and Oliver, to tell us a little bit about the importance of those people and how they inspired these best friends.

00;43;09;08 - 00;43;34;18
Speaker 2
You know, I'm not even sure if some of them will know that they are page and Lucy and Oliver, but at least from my perspective, there's no three better people to be to be honored in in the book. You know, if if I was like to my Zach Thrasher, people would be like, ooh, what you still talk to that guy?

00;43;35;14 - 00;44;12;18
Speaker 2
So so I yeah, there's there's definitely people from high school and beyond who inspired all three of those characters. And some of them are compilations of several people, too. But but it's funny. I like I would I felt like even like up to like ten years ago. What year is it? I was like telling my all of her like about this character.

00;44;12;18 - 00;44;37;17
Speaker 2
I wanted to base on him and I told him I told him and his name is Oliver Burns. And I think that would be such a great drag name. To all of her burns, you know, and, and, and like, I just don't know if he's going to remember that at all. But it'll be funny because I also, you know, how you have dear friends who just aren't readers.

00;44;38;10 - 00;44;53;05
Speaker 2
And when you become an author, they stay not readers, and that's fine. You got to meet people where they're at. So I'm not positive he will even read the book, but he will buy it and he will show me that he bought it. And that's.

00;44;53;05 - 00;44;57;28
Speaker 1
Great. Also in the acknowledgments, you called this book The Book of Your Heart. What makes it the book of your heart?

00;44;58;10 - 00;45;33;00
Speaker 2
It's the high school trauma we met along the way. And and and getting getting a chance to revisit some relationships that were excellent and relationships that were bad. And and, you know, I'm just very proud of this book, too. I feel like it landed the way I wanted it to land. There's little things that like, I went into the editing process, like I had to ask my editors several times.

00;45;33;00 - 00;45;50;04
Speaker 2
I was like, and you're and you're not going to make me change this, right? And I was like, no. And I was like, OK, great. And then I'd ask them again a couple of weeks later, I'm like, and so it's still OK of like, if it's this, right? They're like, yeah, great. So, like, it landed like that makes sense.

00;45;51;14 - 00;45;57;16
Speaker 2
And so it was just little, little things that I'm just very emotionally attuned to this book.

00;45;57;24 - 00;46;01;09
Speaker 1
So this one has shall we say, a wild ending.

00;46;02;06 - 00;46;09;16
Speaker 2
That's that's one of the things that I asked them several times over the course of several months. And so we just we get to have this ending, right?

00;46;10;15 - 00;46;32;24
Speaker 1
I went back and read it thrice to make sure that that was really that's that that's the end. That's the ending oh, you forgot the pages. Yeah. One of my friends is reading it at the same time. Yeah. And she also had that same reaction. She was like, Julie wins my sequel. I need it now. Is there going to be a sequel to the Thrashers?

00;46;34;00 - 00;47;24;06
Speaker 2
I certainly hope so. I have a second Y.A. Thriller coming, but it'll be a different story, different characters. There will be a very, like, small connection between the two books, but only in that same way that you create your fun Julie verse. But I want more Thrashers books. My publisher was really smart in telling me no, because they said, You know, there's always a numbers drop off with sequels no matter what you do, because you you have to read book one first, so you're not going to have more sales on book two and they said, We want your book to to be more successful than your book one.

00;47;24;06 - 00;47;52;10
Speaker 2
You know, we want your career to grow. And I said, Well, fine, so so I want to come back to the Thrashers. I think they are open to it, but it's also kind of a game of wait and see and will the Thrashers do very well? Will there be public outcry and so far everyone has been very public about their outcry, and that has been great to see.

00;47;52;20 - 00;47;56;14
Speaker 1
We demand where's this where do I sign yeah.

00;47;56;22 - 00;47;57;02
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;47;58;11 - 00;48;05;08
Speaker 1
Well, and Chains is also first in the trilogy. So yeah, it's about book two and the timeline for that.

00;48;05;17 - 00;49;00;19
Speaker 2
That we will be announcing things soon, probably in a couple of months about book two. But I'm working on it now and it's very exciting to be able to now. It's, it actually feels in many ways like I'm fan fiction book one like it's a very strange like, hey, here's a story. And you liked it, right? Julie Now go go like tweak some things about it and make it harder, you know, like it's a very interesting experience of like feeling like you're picking up the bad old friend, you know, like when you, when you see an episode of or like when, like, Vampire Diaries comes across your feed and you're like, oh, man, I got

00;49;00;19 - 00;49;23;25
Speaker 2
to rewatch that, you know? And, like, you jump back into, like, the Delana fandom or something. See, I did always love vampires, but but it's like returning to an old friend and being like, Man, I get to play in this world. But at the same time, I'm like, I don't treat this like fan fiction where we have to move towards an ending.

00;49;25;04 - 00;49;37;13
Speaker 1
And I believe I saw online that you have signed on for five books and that some of them are Roman romcoms as usual. So what can you tell us about when those are coming? Because clearly, yeah, early enough.

00;49;38;02 - 00;50;01;06
Speaker 2
I'm not. I need more things. I don't think my next romance will be out until 20, 27. But that's also because of focusing on the Rosen Change trilogy. And it was very funny. I had a call with my team in November, December, like both the UK and the U.S. and I was like, What should I be working on next?

00;50;01;06 - 00;50;21;02
Speaker 2
Like, and they just all were like book two. Why what are you talking about? I was like, Yeah, I mean, like, you don't want to do go back to romance for a spell or anything. They're like, Knock on wood, you really so I was like, Oh, OK.

00;50;21;06 - 00;50;23;04
Speaker 1
And based on that, you have a team.

00;50;23;20 - 00;50;53;12
Speaker 2
Yeah. They're like, No, people want book to a frozen chains jewelry. And I was like, Well, of course they do. But like, I could get you a romance in three months. And they're like, Well, that's fine, but we want book two. This is very great. Yeah, I think the next romance won't be until 20, 27. But we are going to continue in the kind of Julie verse.

00;50;53;19 - 00;51;02;19
Speaker 2
Forget me, not, not another love song. I think all of my romances will connect. And there's even small ways that the Thrashers connects to the romances.

00;51;03;09 - 00;51;04;28
Speaker 1
So. Oh, you mean the Rose Garden?

00;51;05;13 - 00;51;21;19
Speaker 2
Oh, you mean the Rose Garden? Yeah. There's also a florist mentioned in the Thrashers. And while there is zero information that could possibly make you think it's Elliot Bloom, if you think about it as Elliot Bloom, it's even funnier.

00;51;23;21 - 00;51;29;18
Speaker 1
The floral connections where. Yeah. Oh, yeah. In the Rose Garden, Rose and Chains. It all comes together.

00;51;29;26 - 00;51;33;06
Speaker 2
It all comes together. It's a it's a mega mix. Yeah.

00;51;34;00 - 00;51;36;28
Speaker 1
It's just the roses don't know that they're connected to another world.

00;51;37;14 - 00;51;41;29
Speaker 2
Exactly. The Rose Garden is the portal. Yeah. Yeah, that's precisely.

00;51;42;07 - 00;51;46;14
Speaker 1
Well, the last question we always ask because this is literary hype. What books are you hyped about?

00;51;47;29 - 00;52;01;00
Speaker 2
I always forget that you asked that question. I I'm really hyped for they iguanas on Tusk. Love is coming out this summer. Do you have it?

00;52;01;14 - 00;52;02;12
Speaker 1
Are you looking for it?

00;52;02;14 - 00;52;18;27
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. You've got a pretty. See, I don't even ask for pretties anymore because, like, I. I need to listen to it. I need, like, I need a computer to read it to me so that while I drive, while I sign things.

00;52;19;05 - 00;52;23;23
Speaker 1
It was a whole Chaos monster at Emerald City Comic-Con for that.

00;52;24;07 - 00;52;54;11
Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. Good. Good for her. I'm also excited in the romance world, Susan leaves the romance rivalry. It's a Y.A. romance, but they are first year college, so it's it. It is low on smut, but high on maturity. That makes sense. That comes out the week after the Thrashers and I'm doing a little like mini tour with Susan.

00;52;55;17 - 00;53;04;24
Speaker 2
Of course, problematic summer romance, which don't ask me because heaven forbid, any of her friends have read it.

00;53;04;24 - 00;53;10;17
Speaker 1
So I mean that I was going to ask if she's let you see mate yet.

00;53;10;17 - 00;53;24;29
Speaker 2
Either she has recently done that thing where she's like, I just, oh, I'm finishing up a proof pages so I'll send when it's done. And I'm like, Well, now I got to ask you every three days, are you done? Are you done? Are you done? Because she won't follow up.

00;53;24;29 - 00;53;48;15
Speaker 1
So I mean, and Ali's been kind of branching out. Problematic. Summer romance has been buzzy since it got leaked on Good Reads. Yeah. See, her kind of going through it and how the community has surrounded her with love as she's been dealing with all that has been both annoying for the drama but also nice to see people rallying around her.

00;53;49;01 - 00;54;11;05
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's only a shame because they didn't get to announce it how they wanted to announce it. So it's like, well, there didn't have to be drama. You could have gotten far more information about this product, which would have helped everyone just decide. I guess it's not for me because not all books are for you, darling.

00;54;11;22 - 00;54;12;03
Speaker 2
The more.

00;54;12;03 - 00;54;13;14
Speaker 1
You know, the more.

00;54;13;14 - 00;54;14;01
Speaker 2
You know.

00;54;14;04 - 00;54;16;00
Speaker 1
Around you individually.

00;54;16;10 - 00;54;21;14
Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah. Threads is a hell space anyways.

00;54;22;27 - 00;54;31;05
Speaker 1
Ain't that the truth? Yeah. Well, thanks so much for hanging out with literary hype to talk about the Thrashers and Frozen Chase.

00;54;31;14 - 00;54;34;05
Speaker 2
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad to be here.

00;54;37;11 - 00;54;53;15
Speaker 1
Thanks again to Julie for making time out of her very busy writing schedule with all these books that she's got going on to talk all about her new books, The Thrashers and Roseanne Chains. If you'd like to get a hold of either of these books or her past books, the links to do so are down in the show notes for you.

00;54;53;25 - 00;55;03;15
Speaker 1
If you enjoyed this conversation. And don't forget to subscribe to the Literary Hype podcast, give us some stars and chat with a friend. Thanks so much for listening to the Literary Hype podcast.