73. SUSAN LEE: Romance tropes, K-Pop, and finding joy in community

Susan Lee is finally on LiteraryHype! I've known Susan for a couple years and wanted to feature her books since I first read "Seoulmates". Now, it's finally here. We're talking all about her latest YA Romcom, "The Romance Rivalry", her upcoming adult romance debut, "Julia Song is Undateable", the upcoming return of BTS, and the love that binds books and K-Pop together.

Susan is an absolute delight, and I hope you enjoy this conversation and her books.

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The Romance Rivalry
The Name Drop
Seoulmates
Julia Song is Undateable

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The Romance Rivalry
The Name Drop
Seoulmates
Julia Song is Undateable

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The Romance Rivalry
The Name Drop
Seoulmates
Julia Song is Undateable

Transcript

00;00;06;01 - 00;00;27;09
Speaker 1
Hi and welcome to Literary Hype. I am Stephanie Ears literary hype woman and today's author conversation is one I have been trying to get for literally years. Like, I wanted to get this interview really before she even had a cover for her first book. And now her third book is out and that is the romance rivalry. And we're talking to Susan Lee.

00;00;27;16 - 00;00;45;19
Speaker 1
She's also got an adult book coming out later this year. So we're talking about both of those things. And of course, one of the things that we have bonded over is K-pop. So we do talk a little bit about K-pop and K dramas and lots of talk about romance. This book is such a love story to the romance genre and romance fans.

00;00;46;00 - 00;01;09;12
Speaker 1
So buckle up. This one is a really fun conversation with Susan Lee welcome to Literary Hype. I am ecstatic to finally have you on the show. You talk about the romance rivalry. Of course, today we first met back before Soulmates even had. I know.

00;01;10;03 - 00;01;10;22
Speaker 2
I know.

00;01;11;01 - 00;01;15;10
Speaker 1
This is such a long time coming. I'm so excited we finally made this work. Yes.

00;01;15;12 - 00;01;33;03
Speaker 2
Yeah. So we met like kind of via K-pop, right? It's like I think we were talking. And then I saw your sister's profile name, which is like Chung on Angel or something like that. But I knew you and I had been talking before that I was like, called it out. I'm like, oh, my God, your sister's profile.

00;01;33;15 - 00;01;36;04
Speaker 1
Yeah, because you were giving out hats.

00;01;36;24 - 00;01;39;25
Speaker 2
Get to meet Thetis and you get sick of picture.

00;01;39;25 - 00;01;59;14
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. And Jen Fredrick had reposted it on Twitter, and so I thought it was her soulmates. Oh, my God. They both came out the same year. Well, I love John Frederick, so I'm going to go get this one. And then I learned that it was a different book, and I became very excited. And you have not let me down.

00;01;59;17 - 00;02;01;09
Speaker 2
It's oh, you're so kind.

00;02;01;16 - 00;02;23;19
Speaker 1
Especially this one super cute superfan. I cannot wait to talk about it. But before we dove into the story itself, I want to talk about the note that was in the early copies where you wrote a little letter to readers and you said that you weren't a reader and so talk a little bit about how romance has really turned you into a reader.

00;02;24;01 - 00;02;43;27
Speaker 2
Yeah, I always find it interesting because I hear so every time I hear an author story, it's like, oh, like I used to hang out at the library, or I always wanted to be a writer, or I loved books and book, you know, bookstores. And that was just not me growing up. I was, you know, it's kind of weird to think of like, this is going to sound weird.

00;02;43;27 - 00;03;00;10
Speaker 2
I was naturally smart or good at school so that I didn't have to try, so I just didn't love school. I just did well all the time. And it's funny now because sometimes I look back, I'll hear from people that I went to like junior high and high school with and like, oh, God, you're just like such a good student.

00;03;00;10 - 00;03;22;23
Speaker 2
I'm like, actually, I really wasn't. I was super lazy and did not like school and I did not like anything that felt like studying. And I always just thought reading was, was that I was a big TV watcher and I kind of was raised by soap operas. And I think this is why, like, it naturally led into also drama is which were always playing in the background in my house.

00;03;22;23 - 00;03;45;18
Speaker 2
And so but I think if I unpeeled all the layers, the real reason I wasn't a reader is I just in my mind thought I can't relate to any of these books. And not only did like the people not look like me, but if you're if I'm going to read like a story about a young girl who falls in love with the high school quarterback or whatever, I never believed that would ever be my reality.

00;03;45;18 - 00;04;04;02
Speaker 2
You know, I grew up in where I was the only Asian kid in my school for a long time. And and I grew up in a pretty diverse neighborhood, too. But it always just felt kind of singularly that it was just me and my family or kids I knew at church and so I guess I just I just never thought it relatable.

00;04;04;11 - 00;04;34;25
Speaker 2
But it wasn't until I became an adult and I had moved to a brand new city, and I was kind of lonely and bored. And I think my sister, who is a huge romance reader, had recommended a book. To me, it was probably a chick lit book, I think a women's fiction book, and I read it like it, and it was just like, so all of a sudden, like, it felt relatable in the way that you have she might have been blond and I'm not, but she was in her twenties and in a new city and living alone.

00;04;34;25 - 00;04;59;06
Speaker 2
And, and then I just started picking up more and more and more and I just got super hooked. So from that day on, like, as in my adulthood, it was romance that led me into just reading in general. And now I read like memoirs, nonfiction, fantasy, sci fi. I love reading, but I don't think I ever would. I mean, romance was definitely my gateway and remains kind of my, my my number one genre.

00;04;59;11 - 00;05;03;22
Speaker 1
You call romance the genre of love and hope. What does that mean?

00;05;04;18 - 00;05;32;05
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's kind of so many things. You know, I had mentioned this once before, but I feel like romance is also the genre of bravery, of courage. It takes a lot. I think it's like, you know, predominantly written by early, early days, especially by women and where so many other genres were just not as open to women writing stories.

00;05;32;05 - 00;06;05;01
Speaker 2
And and and it is it tells stories that I think even in the tamest sense was pretty tap was pretty taboo in early years. And it tells, you know, stories about people overcoming their issues to find really the ultimate the prize of happily ever after. And so I think that is so wonderfully brave and seeing and reading that and is also what then like instills in my heart, joy.

00;06;05;01 - 00;06;25;05
Speaker 2
You know, it's like the joy of all of these things that as a genre and behind the scenes and then on page that we overcome to end in our happily ever after whatever that looks like for people and whoever that looks like with for people, that's really just something I just think is so celebratory in that that's why I love reading it so much.

00;06;25;12 - 00;06;35;13
Speaker 1
You've become such a mainstay of the romance community over the last few books that you've written and made friends with some really popular and great authors. So what does the romance community mean to you?

00;06;35;18 - 00;07;01;10
Speaker 2
Oh, gosh, it's so important. I, I feel so grateful that I have a wonderfully supportive and kind and fun community around me and I do feel really lucky that a lot of my friends have, you know, found a level of success that is just, you know, stratospheric and wonderful. I you know, I didn't have a lot of female friends growing up, like I was a tomboy.

00;07;01;10 - 00;07;20;12
Speaker 2
And most of my friends were guys. And I grew up very distrusting. And, you know, I don't need to be this is not therapy. I want to pack all my issues for you. But like I found it, I find it so wonderful that as an adult, I am looking more for people who are like me versus who aren't.

00;07;21;26 - 00;07;48;24
Speaker 2
And it is it's such a safety for me and the way that my friends have showed up for me. Like, I am not a huge you know, I'm a midlist author at best. And I have a niche of the kinds of books I want to write and that I the readers that I found. And and it's just so I'm so wonderfully grateful that my friends have kind of always just gathered around me and are supporting me and, and my career.

00;07;48;24 - 00;08;09;19
Speaker 2
And I feel very lucky. This has been the way from the beginning I I'm just lucky to have also known a lot of people before they've published books, and we've all taken these journeys together and yeah, it's a it's it's really kind of the romance land. Yeah. It is my happy place and my safe place.

00;08;09;19 - 00;08;17;19
Speaker 1
And the romance community plays such a big part of the romance rivalry. So talk a little bit about what this book is about and where the initial idea came from.

00;08;17;25 - 00;08;43;16
Speaker 2
Before I was a writer, I was actually a reviewer and blogger so back in the day, blogging was a big thing. And and I just read prolifically. I loved talking about books, and I have also leaned heavily into reviewers and online people like the online space, like a book to book talk books to Graham to find my next, you know, read.

00;08;43;16 - 00;09;07;19
Speaker 2
So I am just so grateful for people who love to read books and then want to share about it. Like, it's like it bubbles out of you. Like, you can't not you just have to talk about it. So I knew I eventually it one day wanted to write a very meta book about the genre I wasn't sure if it was going to be a book about a writer or if it was going to be about, you know, a reader.

00;09;07;19 - 00;09;28;13
Speaker 2
But what I really landed on is I wanted to do a celebration of those who read and then talk about books. So this is a book about a girl, Irene, who is a prolific romance reviewer one of the biggest in the space. She and it's the one thing that she identifies with where she feels like she is special.

00;09;28;13 - 00;09;49;07
Speaker 2
She is a middle child, her in her family of all overachievers, and this is her space. This is the one thing she does. And then, lo and behold, a new reviewer comes on to the space and he's a guy which I also think is so great these days that there are more men reading romance and also actively talking about it and enjoying it.

00;09;49;07 - 00;10;13;02
Speaker 2
And but he kind of like encroaches on her space. And they have such different takes on books and the genre. And she starts to find that his reviewers are kind of trolling her and it comes to this point where she feels very insecure and she realizes, you know, for me to really feel like I am the expert in romance I want to experience romance.

00;10;13;02 - 00;10;36;25
Speaker 2
So she decides when she goes to college, she's going to have this plan to find love via trope. But as romance reasons and shenanigans do, he ends up at the same college and challenges her and says, hey, let's make it a competition to see who will find love first using tropes as our guide. So yeah, that's kind of their meet cute and how it all begins.

00;10;37;04 - 00;10;53;27
Speaker 1
This book is so much fun, and one of the things I love throughout it, before each chapter, you have like a segment of a review from each of them with their opposing points. So talk a little bit about crafting reviews from different perspectives and different takes on the same topics.

00;10;54;07 - 00;11;13;21
Speaker 2
That was actually the hardest part to write because I one thing I have realized and why I respect reviewers so much is I'm really bad at reviewing books. Number one, I can never remember characters names. I don't remember my own characters names. This is a joke with me and Allie Hazel. Great, because Allie will say, Oh, I loved this character.

00;11;14;01 - 00;11;33;03
Speaker 2
I was shipping them with this character. Michael, what book is that? I want to read that too. And she's like, That's your book. And I just be like, Oh, I totally forgot, you know? So I'm terrible with characters names. I almost never remember plots. I'm very bad with plot summaries, so I just think it's so fascinating and wonderfully talented when people do this online.

00;11;34;00 - 00;11;53;07
Speaker 2
And that's when I wrote myself into this corner deciding that I was going to do these epigraphs in the beginning. Of every chapter that which are just little snippet reviews. It was excruciating. It was so hard. But I just do think that it's really fun and you get kind of like a little preview of, you know, what's going to happen in that chapter.

00;11;53;07 - 00;11;54;28
Speaker 2
From the point of view of each of the characters.

00;11;55;05 - 00;12;07;16
Speaker 1
Which goes along well with all of the chapter names are tropes and they somehow hint at that trope in the chapter. Yeah. Did you have to plot that out ahead of time or did that just kind of come about naturally?

00;12;07;22 - 00;12;30;20
Speaker 2
I don't know how to plotter and what I kind of started realizing that I wanted to write in this format. I just wrote a list of as many tropes as I could find and you know, the thing is like, I mean, I use the word trope very broadly because I think a lot of times will say things like something is a trope and it's not technically a trope it's like either a category or it's a descriptor.

00;12;31;08 - 00;12;58;21
Speaker 2
But I think that we in this day and age, especially when we have discourse or discussion around tropes, we are not always accurate as to what a trope is. So I did take some liberties and but yeah, so I had a long list of about 40 of them. And as I was thinking, Oh, what's going to happen next in the story, I then started pulling what could the trope be that describes this, this chapter or this scene.

00;12;58;21 - 00;13;00;25
Speaker 2
And so I kind of did it backwards from there.

00;13;01;11 - 00;13;09;03
Speaker 1
There's so funny the way that you work them in especially Secret Baby. Oh, yeah. When I saw that, I was like, Good, is it bad?

00;13;09;09 - 00;13;23;05
Speaker 2
It's like, Why is bigger baby? And then I have a Faded Made and Omega verse, chapter two, and it's like, I think people get a little bit confused. I was joking once I did one of those graphics that has tropes, and then I said a little touch of Omega versus if you were like, I thought, this is a contemporary.

00;13;23;08 - 00;13;47;24
Speaker 2
Like, Oh, it totally is. You'll get it when you read it. So Fun Site of the Omega. This chapter I was actually reading Mate at the time when I was writing it, and Ali was like putting Omega verse out to our kids. She didn't start Omega verse, obviously, but she was talking about it so much that I thought, Oh my God, wouldn't it be fine if I just did a little nod to that in the way space so that's what that chapter kind of where that came from.

00;13;48;05 - 00;13;51;10
Speaker 1
What was it like for you to dabble outside of your norm with that?

00;13;51;19 - 00;14;23;16
Speaker 2
God, it was I think I kind of wrote it in some kind of fugue state. Like I wasn't really I was under such a tight deadline that I just put it out there. And then afterwards, like the many times I read it back, I'm like, you know, what would be fun is like if I could expand on this in a way that like almost Segways my way, writing to my adult, writing like, like an extra bit of that story, the Omega verse chapter into something that like touches and a little bit steamier.

00;14;23;27 - 00;14;40;18
Speaker 2
So that like, readers could find me in the adult space. So that's kind of one of the things I was thinking about. It was super fun. I mean, I was out of my element for sure. I don't think I could ever write a whole book and something like I'm such a big paranormal reader and I do love like shifters and I love Omega verse.

00;14;40;20 - 00;14;48;23
Speaker 2
It's actually something that I read prolifically and especially in fanfic for a long time, but I just don't know that I could write it. I don't know.

00;14;49;08 - 00;15;00;19
Speaker 1
It was very entertaining and very well worked in, so thank you for this, especially with the mate inspiration. I'm a bright inspiration because mates coming in, I mean, it's extra.

00;15;00;19 - 00;15;01;00
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00;15;01;19 - 00;15;24;07
Speaker 1
It's so bad though. But one of the things that comes up in the conversations between Aiden and Irene, well, I guess it wasn't Aiden then. I mean, it was, it was in the Prolog, Irene and this other guy and these other people at prom of are you? Oh, I thought you were a real reader when you said that romance.

00;15;25;08 - 00;15;30;10
Speaker 1
So talk a little bit about the stigma that comes with romance and why it's so important to crack through it.

00;15;30;16 - 00;15;58;16
Speaker 2
Yeah, you know, honestly, it's so old and like, it was so over it. It's like so funny that this it comes up year after year of like the guilty pleasure or not reveal reading or being ashamed or hiding what you're reading or being made fun of being a romance reader. And I'm just like, OK, we're not past this yet, but every time it comes up, it makes me realize that, oh, you're the one, the person who has this problem or sees it this way that is has been so disconnected.

00;15;58;16 - 00;16;34;18
Speaker 2
You're the one that is late to the game. You're the one that is slow to this conversation because we've done this already. It's, you know, not to spit facts, but it's like you know, one of the highest grossing genres out there in all of literature. We have over 75 romance specific bookstores across I think that's just the US number romancing the data she's a Jane has an account on Instagram and a website and she I love what she does she takes data points for different things about romance and puts it out there.

00;16;34;18 - 00;16;56;16
Speaker 2
And she really kind of I love that because it's like this is the proof. Proof is in the pudding of where the money is going, where the readership is. It used to be that it was because romance readers are so prolific that we could bank on there being a readership because if you read one, you're going to read the next backlist of ten and then anything that is like that book.

00;16;56;27 - 00;17;16;18
Speaker 2
But really it is just expanded so much, I think especially after the pandemic when people were looking for books that brought joy and hope. And the same thing happened with beats actually. It's like people felt better during the pandemic. Because they needed something to find joy in. And there was such a backlist of stuff to watch and get to know.

00;17;16;18 - 00;17;39;24
Speaker 2
And that's the same with romance, right? It's like you want to find joy during a time that's difficult, and then there's just so much there and you get so like like you've been starving for so long that you just want to eat it all. And so like, why, why pooh pooh and stuff like that? Like, why? I just don't understand why anyone would have an issue with that or like, try to minimize what the importance of that in and literature.

00;17;41;00 - 00;17;53;07
Speaker 2
So I'm kind of just over that conversation. I just like now I don't even get fired up about it anymore. I just roll my eyes and I'm just like, Yeah, you've got some catching up to do. It was like, that's how I see it for people.

00;17;53;07 - 00;18;10;07
Speaker 1
But that's so true of like because I used to be the same way of, Oh, like, it's not, I didn't read romance because it's, I need to be reading something that's smart or whatever. That wasn't until around the pandemic where I picked up an arc of Tessa Baileys and then.

00;18;10;10 - 00;18;11;05
Speaker 2
Oh, you don't, right?

00;18;11;05 - 00;18;23;29
Speaker 1
It couldn't go back to like the slow down. So then, OK, I've got to read what I've got. Yeah, and so I picked that up. I was like, Oh, wait, this is the first, this is the second in a series. So I had to go back and read the first. And it's all Tessa Bailey's fault.

00;18;24;03 - 00;18;50;13
Speaker 2
So like saying, like, if you're, if you're going to go you in and you're so right, right in there. I mean, I think the thing is like, there's it like even stepping back from just romance, there is just, I think, a misconception or misunderstanding of what reading means. And I think that, like, people have just a very as a society, we have a very narrow view of what reading is who is a reader, what it means if you are a reader.

00;18;50;23 - 00;19;13;00
Speaker 2
And there's a lot of kind of like trying to pigeonhole people and that is a hobby, like just because you're a reader and this like not to use this as, as a bad term, but like doesn't mean you're a librarian, you know, just like it doesn't mean that like that's all you do or that you only have a life on page, which no shame in any of those things.

00;19;13;00 - 00;19;41;19
Speaker 2
But I think like the way that people used to see reading and books was just so like, this is what it is. And which is so sad because the creativity of what you get out of it expands your mind and your worldview. And, you know, even especially in romance, it expands your understanding about relationships and people and dialog and sexuality and sexual health.

00;19;41;19 - 00;19;55;09
Speaker 2
And it's just like, why? Why wouldn't we even if it's not your tastes, why wouldn't you, though, think it's like a valid form of someone's way of passing the time? Like, I just don't understand that.

00;19;55;21 - 00;20;14;19
Speaker 1
And you do get to have a little fun with the romance. Yeah, but this book by Namedropping Icons and friends and legends throughout this book so what was it like for you to work those names into the story and then like being friends with Christina Laura and getting their reaction to them, seeing their name in the book.

00;20;15;08 - 00;20;44;07
Speaker 2
Don't they know that? Yeah, I never told anyone else. I was like, Yeah, I mean, it's just the girl. I'm such a fangirl of the genre. Like I'm a fan girl of editors and agents and writers and and so this was like, very like for me. I almost had to I had to ask my editor early on if I had gone too far, like, because I could drop Easter eggs and little inside jokes for days if I wanted to.

00;20;44;08 - 00;21;08;02
Speaker 2
And I had to be kind of like bring that back because I wanted also to be accessible for people who are new to the genre and to who have never kind of stepped foot into romance. Land. Yeah. As a community. And but I also wanted to very specifically call out authors who had, you know, made a big impact who whose books I still remember, whose books whose characters they actually remember.

00;21;08;02 - 00;21;45;28
Speaker 2
And so, yeah, there are calls call out to Nalini seeing and Lisa Clips and Beverly Jenkins and J.R. Ward and Christina Lauren. And those are all my favorites. And it's kind of funny because like and I'm always aware of when people like pooh pooh on Y.A. especially way written by adults and say, oh, it's like Y.A., like obviously it's written by adult because who reads that but I know, I know for a fact that teenagers are reading Christina Lauren and I hope teenagers are signing Nalini saying and like so I even double checked to make sure that is the truth.

00;21;45;28 - 00;22;10;24
Speaker 2
And it is so and that's the one thing that made me then like applaud romance again. It's like, yes, some of them like have dated themselves with cultural references, especially like at their word, but it is so timeless. And who doesn't want to read a happily ever after especially if it's hard fought and hard won. And, you know, so I think a lot of those books are just there.

00;22;10;25 - 00;22;25;20
Speaker 2
They're timeless and they're being found by New generations of readership. And I love that. So I wanted to yeah, I wanted to put like kind of nods and little hearts to, oh, my, my favorite authors. And in the book.

00;22;25;24 - 00;22;39;27
Speaker 1
I don't think J.R. Ward is going to win this one, though, because Black Dagger Brotherhood is becoming a show. CBS Republican and had that speech. So the children are learning about. Yeah, right now.

00;22;40;04 - 00;23;01;23
Speaker 2
What is actually kind of funny is of all the like comments and messages from early readers, the most has been about cracking up that I included Zeta's story in this in this book. But I'm like, come on, that is to to date one of my favorite most heart wrenching, gut shattering books that I've ever read. And I will always remember it.

00;23;01;23 - 00;23;07;27
Speaker 2
And so yeah, that was, without a doubt, an easy little, little nod to to add in the book.

00;23;07;27 - 00;23;22;19
Speaker 1
And other nods that you have in this book include some obvious reference. Yes. And Sue Bean is are and spirits were for Aiden. So talk a little bit about blending your love of K-pop and K drummers into your books.

00;23;22;24 - 00;23;43;20
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I was not an early reader. I was raised by soap operas and K dramas. So it is kind of like that's how my mind works. When I think of story is like the way that Kate like drama beats. I jokingly only have lying joking. I always say that my my books are all fan fiction of K drama.

00;23;44;17 - 00;24;11;28
Speaker 2
Like, I watch the K drama and especially my ways, I think, Oh, I wonder what those characters were like as teenagers or what would this story be like translated to a younger audience. But that hasn't changed for my adult books either. So yeah, so I it's easy because it's so important to me to make those references. And for me, hip hop also is like it goes beyond just music for me.

00;24;11;28 - 00;24;48;20
Speaker 2
It's like it is a method of healing and it is much like romance, right? Romance. The genre brings me joy and I, you know, it is, it is. So it's such an important part of my life that I know I'm always going to put a nod into for my favorite groups, which are beats always and 17 sometimes I'll put in there I just don't think that I'll write a book that doesn't even if I write a historical six get the VRA, I will find a way to put it in there.

00;24;49;13 - 00;25;03;15
Speaker 2
Because they're important and I want them whether they ever read it or not. And I also just love our communities, our fandom communities that are k dramas and K-pop, and I want that to be like a little gift for them as well.

00;25;03;16 - 00;25;16;08
Speaker 1
And you do talk about beats in your acknowledgments, which almost made me cry, you da I love them so much in this book coming out the year that they all reunite from military. Yeah, special.

00;25;16;20 - 00;25;17;00
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;25;17;10 - 00;25;21;07
Speaker 1
So talk a little bit about what chapter two of Vets means to you as well.

00;25;21;22 - 00;25;38;01
Speaker 2
Yeah, and I'm going to be honest because I kind of already started it mentioned this. I don't remember what my boots reference is, but only because I'm currently working on my adult book, which also has a vets reference. And I'm like, Oh, I know that one. I can't remember, but I do remind people of it. OK, that's right.

00;25;38;25 - 00;26;07;25
Speaker 2
OK, that is a very these special words. My in my acknowledgments, I had mentioned how vets has approached what they call their chapter two, which is their time kind of on a hiatus as a group so that they could all go through their military mandatory military service in Korea. And then how they each kind of didn't take that as time away, but it was time where they could explore themselves and their solo careers and what they wanted to do on their own as well.

00;26;07;25 - 00;26;31;24
Speaker 2
And as Beets fans, as Army, we were also terrified of this time of them going into the Army and what that meant. And it was very special how they did this, because it was clear, number one, that they they did it with such care and thought for their fans. And then number two, it was it was also for themselves, for themselves to grow and expand and take risks.

00;26;32;03 - 00;26;51;22
Speaker 2
And I'm so like I'm so inspired by that. And in this point of my career, where right after writing the romance rivalry, I had sold my adult book and I was working on my, you know, what will be my adult debut. It was so this is really inspiring to me. And I felt so motivated by that, like, I want to do this well.

00;26;51;22 - 00;27;15;07
Speaker 2
I want to take risks. I want this also to be a gift for my current readership. For them to grow into this, too. And so their chapter to it, I think what also is so great about chapter two, aside from, you know, sometimes when are becomes that you, they don't ask you to love everything that they're doing. You know, it's like as the PTA said, you don't have to love all their music as a soloist.

00;27;15;07 - 00;27;32;25
Speaker 2
They they're just saying, hey, we're putting this out there. And all they've asked is for us to be there when they get back, you know? And so I respect and love that, too. And I mean, always just going to support them even as individuals. But like all their stuff isn't all for me, their solo stuff, is it all for me?

00;27;33;08 - 00;27;40;17
Speaker 2
But that makes me love them even more, you know, so that they creatively took chances. I can talk about this for hours.

00;27;40;17 - 00;27;47;18
Speaker 1
So girl, same all day, every day. We can we can just Susan and Stephanie talk about.

00;27;48;10 - 00;28;07;19
Speaker 2
It like they know like people who like love, like Taylor Swift or the people who go to fish concerts all over the US, like Kate Spencer does that all the time. You know, it's like they will get it, but it's like it's more than just the music. It is the fandom. When you incite this kind of loyalty, it has to go beyond the music.

00;28;07;19 - 00;28;30;19
Speaker 2
It goes to who they are as people and what they give to their fandom. How we've grown with them through even just the years that we've loved them. That stuff is all really special. And so that's why I always tell people, like when they don't understand, I go I The only thing you need to know is it's not just the music, and sometimes it's the music, but it's the lyrics within the music and it's not.

00;28;30;22 - 00;28;40;10
Speaker 2
It's more it goes beyond that and yeah. And so I think it's once you're in, you understand, but it's deeper. It goes deeper.

00;28;40;24 - 00;28;43;09
Speaker 1
So Aden's last name is Joan.

00;28;43;18 - 00;28;43;28
Speaker 2
Yes.

00;28;43;28 - 00;28;45;29
Speaker 1
That's in reference to Joan Cooke.

00;28;46;23 - 00;29;08;14
Speaker 2
What's so funny? Also, my husband in 17 is Joan one who I like I did not do it intentionally. It clearly was somebody's my subconscious. Obviously, the same thing happens in my adult romance book, my placeholder name when I was drafting, I typically put a placeholder and then I work through if that name feels right, my placeholder name was Take Him.

00;29;09;06 - 00;29;32;15
Speaker 2
And it just I couldn't change it by the end. I tried to change it, but the T was so clearly who this person was. But it is not a fanfic of Take Young Kim from or whose name is taken care of in the book too. It is. It's not fanfic of V for vets. It just it was my subconscious obviously putting that name out there, but it is not like the characters nothing like him.

00;29;32;25 - 00;29;38;05
Speaker 2
But maybe it's just another nod and honor of the people that I love.

00;29;38;05 - 00;29;48;28
Speaker 1
So I definitely noticed that in the the because you just enough to cover reveal to. Yeah, I saw that I was like are we getting a V fanfic.

00;29;49;21 - 00;30;12;29
Speaker 2
Duty to explain it so many times because the characters nothing like V at all. The characters are so capable of it. So Doc he is like, I'm like incapable of doing a lot of things so great at so many things but incapable of doing like he doesn't cook, he doesn't, he doesn't know how to do a lot of stuff and tame my character is kind of like, God, he is the example of being capable at everything.

00;30;12;29 - 00;30;17;06
Speaker 2
And so yeah, so it's not V, it's not V fanfic. I swear.

00;30;17;26 - 00;30;22;03
Speaker 1
I mean, who knows what this boy has learned in the military special forces.

00;30;22;10 - 00;30;26;03
Speaker 2
He has surprised us all. That is very true.

00;30;26;25 - 00;30;29;09
Speaker 1
Holmes is coming back with guns.

00;30;29;23 - 00;30;40;21
Speaker 2
Oh, and this time, I mean, I, I am tickled and delighted that he's going to, that he's grown up. I'm very excited. Yeah, I'm excited.

00;30;40;28 - 00;30;57;10
Speaker 1
So one other thing that I love about this is it's not just about the romance. There's so much depth with the friendship and Irene and Gene Jeannette, let's talk a little bit about crafting their, their wonderful girl relationship as well as their group chat, because that group I want to be in.

00;30;57;18 - 00;31;20;16
Speaker 2
It's so funny as you get further into writing. This is my third book. It was actually my fourth book that I drafted. And I think you start to see kind of these patterns. And I had this really interesting conversation with my editor, one of my editors for my adult book. And as we were discussing what my next book will be that I'll start working on, you know, there was a family dynamic and they were friends.

00;31;20;16 - 00;31;40;14
Speaker 2
And I asked her, I said, is this my brand or is this my crutch? You know, I wasn't sure if like I lean heavily on that because I actually love writing friendships. I love kind of friends who are like ridiculous with each other. And say ridiculous things to each other who kind of rib each other. I love that.

00;31;40;14 - 00;32;23;00
Speaker 2
I do that with all of my closest friends. And and then I love family and I love the tension and the hurt and the healing that family relationships found. Or you know, born into, you know, do for characters and stories. And so I think that, like, it's probably part of my brand, you know, it's like I pretty much throughout all my books, there's been like kind of quirky side characters that are the friend, the best friend, the sibling and so when I was writing this, I, you know, I this is my first book also from just one point of view.

00;32;23;09 - 00;32;48;04
Speaker 2
And I usually do duo POVs. And so I needed her to have someone to talk things through and to figure stuff out with and someone who was different enough that she could kind of pull herself out of her very insular small world and see things differently. And so that's how the student character came about. And I love her, too.

00;32;48;04 - 00;33;13;26
Speaker 2
I just think she's such a wonderfully soft character. And but also just really fun and super like over-the-top loving. And it's kind of funny because all the things that this character is best friend, character, makes, like I read uncomfortable a little bit, but then also helps her to grow. Those are things that would make me uncomfortable to like someone who was just very effusively loving and so supportive.

00;33;13;26 - 00;33;40;12
Speaker 2
I'm always just like sidebar, you know? It's like but it's like also inside of like, well, thank you. I needed that. So that's, you know what? I would never ask for it. And she was a delight. And then I wanted to add something similar for edit on his side, and that's how Aidan's friend Charles came about. Yeah. And their scenes are kind of like the friend group scenes are some of my favorites there, and quite frankly, probably the easiest to write.

00;33;40;12 - 00;33;41;28
Speaker 2
I really enjoyed those.

00;33;42;10 - 00;33;59;00
Speaker 1
I would absolutely agree the group chat when they're all roasting each other. Yes, the roasting or the competition just giggles and giggles, I guess. So you touched on your adult book coming up. What can you tell us about that?

00;33;59;11 - 00;34;38;01
Speaker 2
Oh, gosh, I'm so excited. I just I'm really excited. I you know, to be honest, I am. I wasn't a big Y.A. reader when I was getting into romance. And so it kind of like stumbled into writing way. And I love it. I do. And I feel I have more stories to tell for young people. And and I also just want to like a part of me wants to give voice to young people that isn't common to what gatekeepers and people trying to protect them are doing.

00;34;38;01 - 00;35;02;12
Speaker 2
So I still want to write Y.A. however, I am in my heart of hearts. I read adult romance. I read everything adult romance. I will read some messed up adult romance. I will read the sweetest stuff, too, and and all across all genres and categories within romance. And so and a part of me thought I should never write adult because that's my safe spot.

00;35;02;12 - 00;35;31;07
Speaker 2
That's my comfort zone. And if I go into it in a in a work way, maybe that will not be the same. But I also have stories to tell for older people and people who are no longer dealing with first love, but they're dealing with forever love or they're dealing with complications of what it means to be an adult and care, having baggage and so I want to write those stories.

00;35;31;07 - 00;35;54;25
Speaker 2
So we me and my agent had been discussing from the time that before soulmates even came out, it was kind of agreed that we would enter into my career with the end, not the end game, but the next step being we'll enter in with labor, but we'll move on to adult. It took longer than I'd expected, only because we wanted to put out a couple Y.A. books first.

00;35;55;22 - 00;36;19;13
Speaker 2
And then by that point we wanted to find the perfect romance or the right romance for me to break out with. I had already written Julia Song as Undateable. It was the second book I wrote after Soulmates. I wrote it before the name drop or anything. I'd written it in 2021 during the pandemic. I loved it. I'd always hoped it would be my first book and I always hoped it would be a book, you know?

00;36;19;13 - 00;36;41;01
Speaker 2
And it definitely needed some editing and it sat for a while. And then and I think I can say this I made have already shared it, but we hadn't gotten on. So get with this book. We were still kind of working through what my white career was going to look like. And my delightful editor, Michelle from Canary Street Press, she contacted us and she had read soulmates.

00;36;41;20 - 00;37;03;06
Speaker 2
I think she was on vacation and she said, I want a book. She said, she's like, basically, we will buy whatever Susan writes for her first adult. And what I loved about soulmates was kind of this family dynamic on top of the romance and identity and I'm like, Well, I've already written that adult book, and you could have it, you know, if you guys want it, it's yours.

00;37;03;06 - 00;37;25;24
Speaker 2
And so we agreed and I love this book so much, it is like kind of everything that my way books are just on steroids. It's like more because I can do more when you're adult, you can explore more, you can, you know, you, you can experience more. And so it is kind of just next level of what my ways are.

00;37;25;24 - 00;37;44;10
Speaker 2
It's wacky, it's funny, there's oh God is it's a best friend group that I love so much. I love these girls so much. And it's a romance of like it's a cinnamon roll guy who is just, oh, he's so wonderful. I like I have a whole thing with that. This is how I feel about him. I love him.

00;37;44;10 - 00;37;58;12
Speaker 2
And so and then there are some really deep family things that are yeah, they're just really beautiful. So I love it. It's called Julia Song is Undateable. It comes out October 28th. And yeah, I just really love it. I hope you guys will all read it.

00;37;58;19 - 00;38;01;28
Speaker 1
What can you say about what you're working on Beyond Julia Song?

00;38;01;29 - 00;38;24;00
Speaker 2
Oh, God. Yeah. So I think the big conversation is what's next? Was it going to be a white book or my next adult book? I have both under contract, but I have I have ideas for both the only thing is that the way the way like cycle of publishing a book is just longer, you know, it takes a little bit longer.

00;38;25;02 - 00;38;46;01
Speaker 2
It also way books for me just take a little bit longer to write. And we are on kind of a very short cycle for me to get books out for 20, 26. So it is agreed. My next book will be my next adult book, which will come out and probably spring summer, probably summer of 20, 26. So less than a year, maybe six to nine months from when the debut comes out.

00;38;46;08 - 00;39;04;14
Speaker 2
And then I'll have my, my next book after that. And I, we have not solidified story enough. Like I said, I don't plot. So it's really hard to say what the story is going to be about. But I am also very excited about the next adult book. I'm excited to write it, which is a miracle. So like writing is not my favorite thing.

00;39;04;14 - 00;39;11;29
Speaker 2
I love to tell a story, but to actually write it is difficult for me. So but I have like pumped to write this, so I think it's going to be fun.

00;39;12;12 - 00;39;16;06
Speaker 1
Do you change your approach or your process at all? For adult versus Y?

00;39;16;06 - 00;39;38;27
Speaker 2
You know, very rarely. I'm trying to not talk myself down as much anymore. I really validate because I always say, Oh, I'm not really a writer, I'm not good at this. I never studied this. But like I, I don't have a lot of tools in my toolkit when it comes to the actual craft of writing. So my best tool is I have a very vivid imagination, a storyteller.

00;39;38;27 - 00;40;06;06
Speaker 2
I have a storyteller's brain. And so like my process is always just get it down on page, figure out what happens, and then and then figure out what makes it a book. So I and I'm in that process right now, just figuring out what happens. I'm like, totally. I usually always start with the meet cute. And then like I build up with vibes, but I have very little understanding of what the plot is like.

00;40;06;06 - 00;40;21;13
Speaker 2
You're just like, Oh, there should be some tension here or something needs to happen. I mean, if I could write 75,000 to 90, 90,000 words of nothing happened, it's, it's almost no plot, I would do it because that's really what I struggle with the most and that's usually what I deal with. An edit.

00;40;21;13 - 00;40;25;27
Speaker 1
So what have you learned about writing over your last couple of books that you wish you would have known for?

00;40;25;27 - 00;40;56;04
Speaker 2
Book one? I have learned that it's OK that I have things that I'm better at and not good at it. Is it? It doesn't mean that at the end that my book is going to be loved any less than anyone else's. But I think I need to remind myself always I come from reading like I started as a reader first as an adult versus a writer, and as a reader, I will forgive a lot of things in a book if I love one thing.

00;40;56;04 - 00;41;20;24
Speaker 2
You know what it's like, isn't it? What what resonates or what makes people love a book is not necessarily the craft of writing. And then sometimes it is. So I want if I could tell myself something, then it's like, don't be so hard on yourself. You're going to find readers and readers who are going to love your book and who will then allow you to keep writing books.

00;41;20;24 - 00;41;28;00
Speaker 2
And so that's one of the things that I just I'm just gentler on myself as as I go through the process with each new book.

00;41;28;07 - 00;41;37;08
Speaker 1
You also have this really fun side project that I love that you're custom keyboard is a little bit about how you got into that and started selling those.

00;41;37;15 - 00;42;19;21
Speaker 2
Yeah. So that's I think it's very like parallel to how I got into reading romance. But I am I have an obsessive personality. I find hyper fixations. If I love something, I go deep and want to do everything and like almost to the point of like, jeez, settle down season, you know? And I was on tick tock of like last year, beginning of last year of 20, 24 and I started seeing these esthetic videos of women who had just gorgeous desk setups and they would be like beautiful desk setups, gorgeous nails, and then really pretty keyboards.

00;42;19;21 - 00;42;48;07
Speaker 2
And then they would do these videos of them typing keyboards and I was like so curious about it. So I started kind of like going down this rabbit hole and finding that what is so amazing about this is that mechanical keyboards were really kind of like the all the rage with male gamers and who were tired of kind of like just the flat apple keyboard or like the plain black keyboard you were getting with your computer and they needed faster trigger keys.

00;42;48;07 - 00;43;13;00
Speaker 2
And so they started learning how to take apart keyboards and so it became this whole thing in gaming. And then it was actually female gamers who said, Well, I want my board to be pretty and I want my board to look a certain way and I wanted to match the esthetic of my desk and my room. And so female gamers and Twitch streamers were like really kind of running with making this so much prettier.

00;43;13;14 - 00;43;29;28
Speaker 2
And then I just was like, This is the shit. It's like kind of like this feminist take on something that was run by the patriarchy and making it like their own. And so I just could not be stopped from that. I wanted to learn everything. What makes it sound a certain way? I wanted all the technology about it.

00;43;30;06 - 00;43;45;25
Speaker 2
I used to be a network engineer in my early days of a career, and so I was like, Tell me the technology. And then also let me use the creative part of my brain to, you know, make it pretty. And then when I thought, Oh my God, like I could make boards that match some of my favorite books that are coming out.

00;43;46;14 - 00;44;10;11
Speaker 2
So I didn't just like combine this keyboards and books in it or keep out keyboards and K-pop and like, it just I did not expect like the just such the positive reaction from people and people being just so enthusiastic about my kind of weird side project. Yeah. And then my friends Julie, Julie Soto and Alec Hazlewood, they're like, you should sell.

00;44;10;11 - 00;44;28;05
Speaker 2
These people would love people want this. And so now I sell them. I don't sell them for a profit. I just saw them at cost because I want people to have pretty keyboards. I've also noticed that sometimes I'm typing, I'll use just my playing keyboard, and when I'm stuck, I will switch out my keyboard with a different look, different sound, different feel.

00;44;28;05 - 00;44;45;05
Speaker 2
And whether it is just a mental thing or not, the placebo effect or whatever, I feel like I'm suddenly writing something new. And so it's helped me. So I like to give them to my friends. And yeah, that's kind of my jam. Susan's custom keyboard dot com.

00;44;47;01 - 00;44;55;28
Speaker 1
I love them so much and like we needed the little fidget ones to give us. Like, I was so sad I didn't find too great.

00;44;56;01 - 00;45;21;10
Speaker 2
That was also really if I find like K-pop fans that it was for 17 the carrots and then getting that it was just I loved everyone's kind of reaction because a lot of us are introverts. A lot of us have anxiety and like I did it kind of creatively for the esthetic of like being able to do just a small little keyboard, but then seeing how it actually helps people that really like, Oh, oh my God, that was everything.

00;45;21;10 - 00;45;21;23
Speaker 2
I love it.

00;45;22;01 - 00;45;26;12
Speaker 1
Last question we always ask because this is literary hype. What books are you hyped about right now?

00;45;26;12 - 00;46;01;12
Speaker 2
Oh God, there are so many. Oh my gosh. OK, two books that I am thrilled for. One is a white thriller called the Thrashers. By Julie Soto. I read this very early and was just blown away. It is the vibes of she likens it to Veronica Mars. But for readers, I will tell you, if you love Kara Thomas or Karen McManus, this is it's like so good young teenagers being messy and getting caught in kind of this, you know, this mess, some trouble.

00;46;01;12 - 00;46;23;08
Speaker 2
So it's it's really good. And there's a little spark of romance in there that I'm like dying for. Also, me six is the repackaging special edition of Love, in other words, by Christina Lauren, which is one of my all time favorite books I also love it because it feels a little bit it is two timelines, and the past feels so like just the best way romance is.

00;46;23;08 - 00;46;50;03
Speaker 2
You read and then the present is the best adult romance is you read. So it's like so wonderful. And then just to be really quick on May 13th, so many good books are coming out, but obviously Kennedy, Ryan's new book is coming out. I'm actually hearing Blake has a new book coming out. And then also on the 13th Betty Carillo has a new book coming out and in Y.A. you definitely should check out Samir Ahmed's new book coming out on the 13th.

00;46;50;03 - 00;46;54;15
Speaker 1
So it truly is a stacked spring releases is.

00;46;54;29 - 00;47;24;29
Speaker 2
Going to get right. Yeah. Oh, can I just say two more because we're about to jump into the whole American Pacific Heritage Month, and both Cacho and Axios new books are coming out and they are my Korean sisters. I love them. They are so talented. Cats book is a K-pop book and I am actually next book. The Floating World is her next fantasy book with just Korean folk, you know, running through it and so please check out those two books as well.

00;47;25;08 - 00;47;33;06
Speaker 1
I love that. Like half of the books you have referenced, I have episodes coming up with. So this is J Cross Reference Guide.

00;47;33;08 - 00;47;34;09
Speaker 2
Yeah. So again.

00;47;34;20 - 00;47;38;25
Speaker 1
Listen to Susan's recommendations, then go watch the conversations and go buy the books.

00;47;39;03 - 00;47;39;14
Speaker 2
Love it.

00;47;40;12 - 00;47;44;08
Speaker 1
Well, thanks so much for taking time to talk to literary hype. About your brand new book.

00;47;44;17 - 00;47;48;08
Speaker 2
Romance You. Thanks for having me. I'm so glad we finally get to do this.

00;47;51;13 - 00;48;06;28
Speaker 1
Thanks so much to Susan for hanging out and talking with me about the romance rivalry. I love her books. You need to check them out at. The links to do so are down in the show. Notes for you. So make sure you check that out and get your hands on these books. They're just so happy. It just brings joy.

00;48;07;06 - 00;48;16;13
Speaker 1
If you enjoy this conversation, don't forget to subscribe to the Literary Hype podcast. Give us some stars and share it with a friend. Thanks so much for listening to the Literary Hype podcast.