78. ELLE TESCH: Dealing with impostor syndrom as a debut authors | What Wakes The Bells

I love itnroducing readers to debut authors and Elle is one to add to your TBR list. She's the author of "What Wakes The Bells", which is a fantasy novel about a sentient city and the bellkeepers within when one accidentally unleashes a big problem. We're talking all about impostor syndrom, world building, and how Prague is so key to her writing this book.

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Transcript

00;00;06;02 - 00;00;27;10
Speaker 1
Hi and welcome to Literary Hype. I am Stephanie, your literary hype woman and today I get to see one of my favorite things and that's introduce you to a debut author. Today's debut author is Elle Tash. She is the author of What Makes the Bells, which is a Y.A. fantasy story with with a lot of a lot of elements to talk about in this one.

00;00;28;05 - 00;00;50;02
Speaker 1
Elle is a debut and we got to do a panel together at Emerald City Comic-Con 20, 25, which was her first Comic-Con appearance. And she did so great. So I'm so excited to share this conversation with you about what makes The Bells Welcome to Literary Hype. It's so exciting to have you on. Talk about your debut novel, What Wakes the Bells.

00;00;50;10 - 00;00;51;09
Speaker 2
Thank you for having me.

00;00;51;27 - 00;01;01;21
Speaker 1
So I don't know if, you know, like the ravenous, ridiculous behavior of some of the people who are trying to get a hold of this book at y'all fest. It was a very popular ARG.

00;01;01;26 - 00;01;10;04
Speaker 2
OK, hold on. I've heard rumors about this, but like I'm trying to be chill and like, humble. I'm like, why would you tell me that? No, you don't have to make me feel better. It's OK. Was that actually it?

00;01;10;04 - 00;01;25;22
Speaker 1
Like, it was actually a thing. Really? Because it was one that I was trying for. Yeah. Like I had I was it was cornhole. So you'd play Cornhole to get your book. And they had three books. Yeah. And I had my ticket and my husband's ticket. Yeah. And I got both of them in a different hall, but they were in the same hall.

00;01;26;01 - 00;01;41;23
Speaker 1
Yeah. And they wouldn't let me try it. And then I was like, OK. And then I turned around and there was like 15 people who had gotten different books that wanted yours, and they were waiting, hoping someone would trade with them. It was the first one out. Everybody wanted your book.

00;01;42;05 - 00;01;44;12
Speaker 2
Well, thanks to everybody. That's so kind of you.

00;01;44;28 - 00;01;50;00
Speaker 1
What's it like for you to see this kind of response already for just a brand as a brand new author?

00;01;50;11 - 00;02;09;07
Speaker 2
Can't you tell? I don't believe it. Like, I don't like I don't know. I'm in very much in denial. Like, this has been so long. Like I've been writing for ten years. This is my seventh completed manuscript, but it's my first book. And like, I've sat on this for five years and I don't know, I just feel really weird about it.

00;02;09;10 - 00;02;12;04
Speaker 1
You don't look old enough to have been writing for ten years old.

00;02;13;01 - 00;02;19;15
Speaker 2
I turn 33 next year or next month. Sorry, next month. See, that's the old lady brain.

00;02;19;20 - 00;02;22;19
Speaker 1
I'm right there with you because I'm 35. So. So there you go.

00;02;22;27 - 00;02;23;10
Speaker 2
Understand?

00;02;23;11 - 00;02;25;01
Speaker 1
I hope people also think I'm young.

00;02;25;01 - 00;02;26;26
Speaker 2
So it's a curse.

00;02;27;13 - 00;02;28;19
Speaker 1
It's a blessing and a curse.

00;02;28;21 - 00;02;38;19
Speaker 2
I don't know. I had dinner last night and I ordered like a completely innocuous drink and they're like this serious scrutiny of my driver's license. But, like, I assure you, it's real.

00;02;39;18 - 00;02;46;02
Speaker 1
I've got, like, were you even alive for this? And I'm like, how old do you think I am? Not 25. You know.

00;02;46;02 - 00;02;52;26
Speaker 2
People say things like, Babe, sit down, sit down. I was there when it was written as well.

00;02;52;26 - 00;02;58;10
Speaker 1
So for anybody who hasn't seen this book, Hey, what rock are you living under? But B, what is this book about?

00;02;58;16 - 00;03;13;06
Speaker 2
OK, well, what makes it sells is white dark fantasy standalone about a magical belle keeper, the vengeful saint that she unleashes by mistake. Make that clear. And the sentient city that turns on its inhabitants.

00;03;13;20 - 00;03;19;26
Speaker 1
Ooh, la la. Yeah. So where was the initial spark from this story? Where did it come from?

00;03;19;27 - 00;03;45;19
Speaker 2
Oh, man. OK, so I feel like I'm like a broken record at this point. Because everyone asks and I tell you, but, like, all credit goes to Prague. I was there in 2019, and I went up the clock tower at St Ryder's Cathedral. And they have a whole clock mechanism open at the top. And I got there right when the top of the hour hit and it was like it was a bunch of clanking and noise all to like pull one bell string.

00;03;46;00 - 00;04;03;22
Speaker 2
It was like a bomb went off in my head, like I'm not responsible. If I knock someone over coming down the stairs, they're like these little spiral staircases I was just ripping down them, pausing to take pictures through all like the little windows of the bowels. And I was with my cousin and I forget that, like, not everybody knows who I am.

00;04;04;07 - 00;04;18;20
Speaker 2
And I ran up. Someone's like, Look it is. Look at this. No showing in the video of Clock. And he thought it was something really cool and it wasn't because it really wasn't. He's like, Are you OK? Because like, when I get a story idea, like, I get really kind of Pharrell, I don't know, like, it just it just sinks.

00;04;18;20 - 00;04;40;10
Speaker 2
It's claws and it doesn't let go. And then so that was kind of like the first seed of it. And then the next day we were at the old town hall where that, like, that famous astrological clock is on the side. And there was a plaque outside that was talking about a local legend where every time the heart of the largest bell in St Vitus Cathedral breaks, it's an omen of something bad.

00;04;40;27 - 00;04;54;18
Speaker 2
And so I think the last time that happened, they were like catastrophic floods across the country, I think was 2002. And then the pieces just all kind of came together and I sat on it, molded over for a year and then 20, 20 started writing it.

00;04;54;23 - 00;05;06;06
Speaker 1
That's so cool. How important is it? Like obviously travel is a huge part of this particular story. Yeah. So how important was that initial trip and those photos that you took in crafting this?

00;05;06;17 - 00;05;33;14
Speaker 2
Oh, I pretty much lived in Prague in my mind the whole time I was writing it. Like going back to the photos and stuff, like I used the pictures of the stained glass windows in St Vitus like that, that color scheme is on the cover of the book. Like it just there is so much of Prague that is just inserted into this book, however accidentally, that it just kind of is my love letter to that trip.

00;05;34;05 - 00;05;50;25
Speaker 2
So yeah, like, you know, the Gothic spires cobbled streets, the winding like all of it is like there's there's a bridge in the book, what did I call it, shot and bridge. It's basically like a carbon copy, but fantasy wise of Saint Charles Bridge in Prague, like it's just all there.

00;05;50;29 - 00;06;05;24
Speaker 1
And you mentioned the stained glass window, which is not only on the cover of the book, but it's on like almost on paper, not quite papers, but like right at the beginning but it's like outline. Did you also have the compulsion to want to color it? It looks like a coloring book.

00;06;05;25 - 00;06;16;00
Speaker 2
It's all I want to do. I was I was going to ask if I like I could like send it to people. It'd be like a preorder incentive, but then I forgot because that's my brain. But yeah, no, it's I want to color it.

00;06;16;04 - 00;06;20;02
Speaker 1
I want to color as soon as I open it up, I was like, coloring book.

00;06;20;02 - 00;06;27;00
Speaker 2
Encourage you to do it at least. I mean, pictures do it. Like I if you want to deface your book in that way, I totally support it.

00;06;27;00 - 00;06;41;00
Speaker 1
Can da blake does like a giveaway she'll like annotate and doodle and a copy. Yeah, like I'll color on this copy future idea. Yeah. It's also got some other really fun design features of, like, the fairytale drop letters that she posted about those so much.

00;06;41;00 - 00;06;53;01
Speaker 2
My designer, Meg. Oh, they did such a good job with it. Like, every time. Every time I got a copy of it to see how it was doing, I just. It's like the book design of my dream, quite literally, so I could not have asked for better.

00;06;53;08 - 00;06;59;11
Speaker 1
Did you have any input along the process or was it just all they were like, Here's what you get and you just automatically loved it.

00;06;59;12 - 00;07;16;09
Speaker 2
I did have some. I think they would have nailed it anyways even without me. But like for the cover, I did have some input. Like they asked like, you know, please put together a document of like just stuff that you're interested in. And I went like full all in and like here's a 20 page PowerPoint that I couldn't send because it.

00;07;16;09 - 00;07;21;01
Speaker 1
Was too big. So to copy it slide into a word document anyways.

00;07;21;11 - 00;07;39;29
Speaker 2
Because it was too vague, but like my ideas were dumb looking back because like I got, I got four sketches. They decided to go with a cover artist. Eleanor, I've never had to say her last name out loud, so I'm sorry if I got you this. Petra I love her work. So I'm so glad that they got her for that.

00;07;39;29 - 00;07;53;11
Speaker 2
And I just, I'm obsessed. But they sent me four sketches for it, and I fought so hard for the one that did get picked, and I'm so glad that I did, but I my initial idea was I wanted it to be, like, all stone. And then when I saw that, I was like, all the I don't know what I'm talking about.

00;07;53;24 - 00;07;59;14
Speaker 2
So the I think even without my input, they'd have done a great job with it because it just looks so good.

00;07;59;19 - 00;08;05;26
Speaker 1
You've got so many great graphics on your Instagram. Is that from them or that or like pieces from them? And you do twinkle.

00;08;05;27 - 00;08;11;20
Speaker 2
All the ones that have been the blurbs are from them and everything else is me selling my soul to Canva.

00;08;12;19 - 00;08;22;19
Speaker 1
Canva owns a lot of other fields. What's it been like for you to have to take on the, like, marketing a book now that you've got one coming out?

00;08;22;24 - 00;08;38;19
Speaker 2
I'm so excited for it to be out so I can not get social media anymore. I'm like, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I see so many other authors that are just like, they're so good at marketing, and I wish I had that bone in my body. And I don't. I just kind of like vibe.

00;08;39;04 - 00;08;54;08
Speaker 2
Here's a thing. Go forth. I don't really like putting my face up and like, because, like, I, I'm such a homebody, so I never leave the house I don't want to put on makeup for a photo, and I don't think I'm a social media maven. Well, put it that way.

00;08;54;14 - 00;08;56;02
Speaker 1
It looks great, though.

00;08;56;02 - 00;08;56;18
Speaker 2
Thanks.

00;08;57;04 - 00;09;18;22
Speaker 1
It's all smoke and mirrors. Let's talk a little bit about these characters because they are so fascinating. So we have Meena are our main character and she's got a really complex relationship with both of her parents. So let's talk a little bit about the relationship with her father first. What was it like for you to dove into this?

00;09;18;22 - 00;09;26;28
Speaker 1
Very she's lost her father and there's all that grief. But as someone who still has your father who's chillin with us.

00;09;27;03 - 00;09;27;29
Speaker 2
Hanging out down there, hey.

00;09;27;29 - 00;09;35;21
Speaker 1
Dad. So what's it like for you as someone who still has your dad around to dove into that grief from someone else's perspective of losing them?

00;09;35;23 - 00;09;54;26
Speaker 2
Like, obviously, I don't have that experience particular, but I think what makes grief such an interesting topic for why is that? I think at this point in their lives, every teen has experienced this like world ending loss, whether it's a friend, whether it's an aunt or an uncle or a grandparent and stuff. And like I know for me, like I had a like there's been a lot of death in my family.

00;09;54;26 - 00;10;13;18
Speaker 2
Over the years. Like, I went to like 20 funerals before I went to my first wedding ever. So I think it was a lot easier for me to tap into that. Like all that passed grief and like kind of you can build it up, but like I know how it felt to lose, like my aunt when I was so young like that, just like it wasn't fair and it wasn't right.

00;10;13;18 - 00;10;24;16
Speaker 2
And she was not old and so it kind of it was easy enough to draw from that. Even though I haven't lost a parent myself, it it's, it was pretty close how it felt.

00;10;24;23 - 00;10;27;23
Speaker 1
How does that grief drive mean in this story?

00;10;28;00 - 00;10;49;11
Speaker 2
Well, it ties into a lot of stuff because I don't think she's really been allowed to grieve because like part of this is that with the Belle Keeper role being inherited, she wasn't expecting to be thrown into this role so fast and so she's just I call her my spiteful girl because everything is just like, you don't think I can do it?

00;10;49;11 - 00;11;10;06
Speaker 2
Well, fine. I'll prove to you that I can. And so she's she's not really had the chance to just sort of sit down and, like, be a kid with that grief. She's trying to grow up really fast with all this first love. First I'm moving out first real loss in her life. It's just it's a lot. It just she's just doing her best.

00;11;10;19 - 00;11;18;27
Speaker 1
And on the flip side of that is like how the grief her mother's grief affected their relationship. So talk a little bit about how things are going with Mina and her mom.

00;11;19;06 - 00;11;31;18
Speaker 2
Yeah, I don't know where that came from because my mom and I have a great relationship. Like we have a little spats as everyone does, but like, my mom is like my friend. Like, we would never be like that. She would never do that to me. So I don't know where that came from. I'm not going to lie.

00;11;31;19 - 00;11;54;03
Speaker 2
I don't know where the inspiration came from. It's a really mean mom in there. But I just I found it very interesting to to explore that sort of duality of like, you're sad and but like, you're just trying to make the best of it and do your best and still honor your father. Well, there's your mother who's just weirdly kind of blaming you, even though she knows it's not your fault.

00;11;54;03 - 00;12;02;01
Speaker 2
And there's so many unpacked layers in there that she really just needs to go see a therapist for. And it would make things a lot easier.

00;12;02;15 - 00;12;27;15
Speaker 1
And then she's got this little boyfriend. Hmm. Who might partially be to blame for the things happening kind of a little bit. But she talks a little bit about, like, how her past relationships hadn't worked because they were going too fast, and this one just felt like he got her stuck a little bit about the importance of feeling seen in a relationship and why it's important for teens to see that in an addiction.

00;12;28;01 - 00;12;47;07
Speaker 2
Well, this is definitely a book I think I would have needed as a kid because as part of writing that relationship with me and Max is that it was very cathartic for me because I in, in 20, 20, like I realized that I'm on the spectrum and I didn't quite know what that meant, but I, I read a book and I read a passage and I was like, Oh, oh, that's me.

00;12;47;07 - 00;13;16;01
Speaker 2
And I had to stare at a wall for a minute. And so that realization and that trying to understand it fed into writing Nina and Max together because Nina's meanest, I mean sexual. And so she, she doesn't approach relationships in the same way that might be ordinary or normal for other people. That's why they're an established couple. Two because you don't see that a lot in my it's usually, you know, we meet and then by the end of it, they're together, but they've been together for six months already by the time we finally meet them.

00;13;16;07 - 00;13;32;27
Speaker 2
But like, I think it's just important that, like, teens can see that, like you don't have to like dating in high school is fucking weird. Like everything. Like, you see like your best friend get a boyfriend you like. Well, now I have to have one, but no, you don't. It's OK. There's no one right way to to have a relationship when you're a teen.

00;13;32;27 - 00;13;51;09
Speaker 2
Like, if you need more time, if you need more space, if you need, you know, if you need to be in charge and like that's OK. It's totally fine. And if the person you're with doesn't understand that and tries to pressure you into something that you're not ready for, like, that's they're not someone that you should be with anyways.

00;13;51;09 - 00;14;07;26
Speaker 1
And it's interesting how she talks about it like that leads to her feeling that there's something wrong with her. And I feel like so many people feel that same way of like, if I'm not sitting in this particular situation, then it's I'm the problem. Not everything else is forcing me into something that I'm not supposed to be in.

00;14;07;26 - 00;14;08;05
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;14;08;05 - 00;14;25;13
Speaker 2
And that's why I think this is important to you because like, again, like, if I'd had this as a teenager, maybe it would have made me understand why, like, why don't I feel the same way as other people sort of thing? And like, I just think it's important and like, I know a lot of people aren't really going to like that relationship because it's already it's already established.

00;14;25;13 - 00;14;42;26
Speaker 2
You don't get that meet cute or whatever in the beginning, but like I wrote it for the people like me and I've heard from readers where they've said like they see themselves in Mina and like this is like this has helped me understand myself and that's, that's what matters to me because that's that's all I want is just for you to, you know, to see yourself for once.

00;14;43;10 - 00;14;55;15
Speaker 2
There's nothing wrong with the big, you know, glorious romance of like you have a meet cute in chapter two and then there's this big arc the whole way through. Like, there's nothing wrong with that at all. But sometimes you do need those quieter, slower romances.

00;14;55;25 - 00;14;58;07
Speaker 1
There's room in romance for everything.

00;14;58;10 - 00;14;58;26
Speaker 2
Exactly.

00;14;59;11 - 00;15;03;02
Speaker 1
There's plenty of shelf space. Celebrities are just so good.

00;15;03;17 - 00;15;10;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, I'm so biased, but I love slow burns. So and this was like, I can say it's a slow room, but not really because they're already established. But, you know.

00;15;10;23 - 00;15;21;20
Speaker 1
I also want to talk a little bit about the city because it is kind of sentient. What was it like creating a place that also is a character in and of itself?

00;15;21;23 - 00;15;40;00
Speaker 2
You know, the funny thing is, for such an important part of the plot, I didn't figure out the city was sentient until halfway through the first draft. So it definitely was an idea that took a while to come to me. But I think it was probably the most fun I have ever had writing a setting because worldbuilding is my favorite.

00;15;40;00 - 00;16;05;19
Speaker 2
Like, I like not to toot my own horn, but I love roping and I'm good at it. Like, sorry, but I this was this is so much fun. I've never had to like think so hard about how certain things would work because it, it replaces a lot of stuff that we would consider and take for granted. Like, OK, there were a lot of hypothetical questions that I had to ask of like, OK, well, how would this door open?

00;16;05;19 - 00;16;22;27
Speaker 2
Like, is it an automatic door? OK, well, then the city opens and how would you turn off the lights? We don't have a switch. So like the city would extinguish the candles for you and turn on the lights and heat up the water. And, you know, but then there's also those those other elements of the living where you can you can feel its heartbeat through the wall sort of thing.

00;16;22;27 - 00;16;26;20
Speaker 2
So and that's how like I mean, I can tell something's wrong because that heartbeat is not steady anymore.

00;16;27;00 - 00;16;32;10
Speaker 1
And then we have the brain loving. Let's talk a little bit about crafting the baddy. Hmm.

00;16;32;17 - 00;17;04;16
Speaker 2
He's definitely a fun character. I love I love writing fill dialog because you can just go like full on unhinged and everyone just accepts it. So I really I did enjoy that, especially like the like, OK, the catacombs scenes. I say this all the time, but they're my favorite because of what it reveals. We're writing those scenes where we're debating is properly revealed sounds, spoilers, but those are definitely my favorite characters just because of that, because of those moments of like complete unhinged chaos with a villain.

00;17;05;10 - 00;17;06;25
Speaker 2
Just getting to say the weirdest shit.

00;17;07;06 - 00;17;18;14
Speaker 1
So you made it onto a very fancy list of Barnes Noble's most anticipated books of March. Yeah. And your graphic was like, imposter syndrome in a photo.

00;17;18;16 - 00;17;43;19
Speaker 2
That's how feels. I don't I'm very flattered. So Barnes Noble. OK, thank you. I'm Canadian, so like my, my Barnes Noble's Indigo so I don't really clock Barnes and Noble. So seeing that, knowing that like, Barnes Noble is big, but I think I, I had a moment or to get up and walk away and then refresh it a couple of times to see that that was in fact correct because why am I on the same list as like legends like Tracy Dion and Susan Collins?

00;17;43;19 - 00;17;50;19
Speaker 2
Like, are you sure did you make a mistake? Is this a typo? Oh, no. This is a thing like, I'm not trying to be humble. I'm just like genuinely confused.

00;17;52;12 - 00;17;56;18
Speaker 1
What have you learned about yourself through this whole process of publishing your first book?

00;17;56;18 - 00;18;01;01
Speaker 2
I'm a very disorganized person. I procrastinate a lot.

00;18;01;28 - 00;18;02;12
Speaker 1
Um.

00;18;04;01 - 00;18;09;01
Speaker 2
Yeah. I would like to do things differently for book two. Let me just put it that way because I just like vibes.

00;18;09;06 - 00;18;18;12
Speaker 1
So what can you say about book two? Because you posted a graphic with a lot of works in progress on it. Yeah. So what can you say about Book two and your future writing plans?

00;18;18;12 - 00;18;40;10
Speaker 2
Well, Book two is called The Hanging Bones. It's another why a dark fantasy standalone. I don't really have like a proper pitch for it yet. I'm still working on it. I'm waiting for edits from my editor now I like to describe it as where you choose the bear over the man, but then you also use the bear to analyze the man who.

00;18;40;12 - 00;18;55;27
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it has an arrow is gamekeeper who enters a magical hunt for a stag where if you kill it, it grants you a wish in the form of a death of another hunter. Oh, and she does it to kill her boss.

00;18;56;02 - 00;18;56;21
Speaker 1
Dun dun dun dun.

00;18;56;21 - 00;19;10;03
Speaker 2
Dun dun dun. But while this is all happening, another monster has moved into the forest because it's a dark forest and is wreaking havoc on everything by lots of people showing up dead in very suspicious ways.

00;19;11;00 - 00;19;19;04
Speaker 1
Love to see it, see it. And one thing we love to see is because you touch it and you have a great relationship with your mom. Your mom took your author photo.

00;19;19;09 - 00;19;19;29
Speaker 2
Yes, she did.

00;19;20;05 - 00;19;24;06
Speaker 1
What's it like for you? To have that special connection with her into your book?

00;19;24;06 - 00;19;38;04
Speaker 2
She's so proud. I love it. It's very effortless. Like, I love my mom. We have a good relationship, and she's very proud of me. Like she opened that book. First thing she did, I took that photo. She says every time it shows up turns like I did that. And every time her name pops up on the photo credit, she's just so proud.

00;19;38;04 - 00;19;51;29
Speaker 2
But she is so proud of me, too. And she's been so supportive like when her copy from Indigo arrives, she took it out and she immediately put it on display in the kitchen and like, it catches the gold foil just right and just she's just so proud of me. And I'm like, It makes me feel so supported. And like, my dad, too.

00;19;51;29 - 00;19;54;26
Speaker 2
Like, we're all very happy family. My sisters are.

00;19;55;01 - 00;19;59;28
Speaker 1
Awesome. Both. The last question we always ask because this is literary hype. What books are you hyped about?

00;20;00;27 - 00;20;02;03
Speaker 2
How much time do you have?

00;20;02;14 - 00;20;03;03
Speaker 1
That's a mood.

00;20;05;01 - 00;20;27;25
Speaker 2
Of it off the top of my head, obviously, The Hunger Games, that's I did a full reread in January. I'm ready. Let's go I was coming out and Same Day is in the Company of Killers by Laura Cook, which is fantastic. But she's also a debut and a fellow Canadian and I love her dearly. And it's about rival Mafia gangs in New York City, also Hawaii.

00;20;27;27 - 00;20;37;05
Speaker 2
It's just it's so good. Like, I totally recommend that you go and read that there's an excessive amount of preorders coming soon to my house and I can't remember them. I just know there's a lot.

00;20;37;19 - 00;20;39;15
Speaker 1
I feel this deeply.

00;20;39;18 - 00;20;48;12
Speaker 2
Like The Glittering Edge by Alyssa Valera was it when devils sing. There's so many. Like, I just I have like mountains of books in my room and I shouldn't be buying more.

00;20;49;02 - 00;20;53;03
Speaker 1
But buying books, reading books and talking about books are all separate hobbies.

00;20;53;03 - 00;20;54;02
Speaker 2
They're completely different.

00;20;54;02 - 00;20;57;07
Speaker 1
And then you have writing books on top of that. So for different hobbies.

00;20;57;07 - 00;21;05;24
Speaker 2
I know, I know my books. I know what's coming. They're all here and they're all good. And yeah, yeah. And some new killers probably topping the list. I have read it already, but.

00;21;05;25 - 00;21;25;00
Speaker 1
I don't read it again so well. Thank you so much for taking time to talk to literary hype about what makes well, thank you so much for having me thanks again to Elle for taking time out of her Emerald City Comic-Con schedule to talk to me about what makes the Bells. She's so sweet. So definitely check out her books and the links to these are down in the description as well.

00;21;25;00 - 00;21;39;21
Speaker 1
Try to find her on social media. So definitely check this out. If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to subscribe to the Literary Hype podcast. On your platform of choice. Give us some stars, read a review and share it with your friends. Thanks so much for listening to the Literary Hype podcast.