90. GINGER STACHE: Writing with Joyce Meyer & overcoming rejection

This week on LiteraryHype Podcast, I'm taking a turn into non-fiction. I don't often feature non-fiction but I do enjoy it. Today's guest is Ginger Stache, who is the Chief Creative Officer for Joyce Meyer Ministries and host of Talk It Out Podcast. She co-wrote Joyce's latest book, Healing the Wounds of Rejection, which carries an important message for everyone, not just those of a faith background.

Plus, Ginger is a fellow nerd so we're talking all about fandoms!

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BOOK CLUB EPISODE ONE

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Chasing Wonder

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Healing the Wounds of Rejection
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Healing the Wounds of Rejection
Chasing Wonder

Transcript

00;00;06;23 - 00;00;25;25
Speaker 1
Hi and welcome to Literary Hype. I am Stephanie, your literary hype woman. And today's author Conversation for Literary Hype podcast is in the nonfiction space. I don't do a lot of nonfiction, but I do do some occasionally. And this one is a really important topic. The book is called Healing the Wounds of Rejection, and it is co-written by Joyce Meyer and Ginger Stuckey.

00;00;25;25 - 00;00;50;28
Speaker 1
So today we're just talking to Ginger. Joyce doesn't do a lot of interviews. She's skin up there in the Age. So we're just talking with Ginger, who is the chief creative officer for two experimental strips. She's on the show and now she's co-writing with Joyce. So buckle up because we are diving in on how to deal with rejection well, welcome to Literary Hype.

00;00;50;28 - 00;01;12;24
Speaker 1
It's so exciting to have you on just because, you know, new for a hot minute but before we dove into the book itself, there's probably going to be a lot of people who recognize Joyce Meyer's name from seeing her in bookstores and haven't seen you because they don't watch the show. So for anybody who knows Joyce Meyer but doesn't know who you are, who are you?

00;01;13;25 - 00;01;18;00
Speaker 2
I feel like it's so nice to meet you, but I already know you, but I don't know all of you.

00;01;18;07 - 00;01;44;14
Speaker 3
So my name is Ginger Stuckey, and I have worked with Joyce, with Joyce Meyer Ministries for over 20 years now. And so, yes, if they watch her television program, they'll see me there with her. But this project that we wrote together is one that as friends, we would just talk like friends do about life and, you know, hard things that you're going through.

00;01;44;14 - 00;02;09;11
Speaker 3
And so rejections are something that everyone faces. And one day she called me and she said, Would would you like to write a book with me on rejection? And so that's how it all began. And my role actually at the ministry is working in different areas. In television and print. And so anyway, I was thrilled to be involved in this way.

00;02;09;17 - 00;02;17;06
Speaker 1
What was the process like of developing the outline and the writing process and deciding who was going to do what chapters?

00;02;17;16 - 00;02;36;10
Speaker 3
So we started by just sitting down and talking, just talking through everything about what we feel, what we've dealt with, what's important and what we really felt would be helpful for people to share because, you know, sharing your stories makes such a huge difference. So we really wanted to do that, so we knew we wanted to start there.

00;02;36;18 - 00;02;58;23
Speaker 3
But then it was what are all the other things about rejection that we learned that we wanted to put in here? So after we had that conversation, then I took it and I made an outline for it, and then we talked about that and made any adjustments that we wanted to make. Wrote some chapters together just just by talking.

00;02;58;23 - 00;03;29;02
Speaker 3
And then, you know, I took it back and wrote and then she took it back and wrote as a collaboration and other chapters. We decided, for instance, if there was something that she really wanted to write about, like she really wanted to write about perfection, how we use perfection to avoid rejection. I really wanted to write about the lens of rejection, how once we've had a series of rejections, we tend to see the world through that lens of I'm going to be rejected again.

00;03;29;12 - 00;03;37;06
Speaker 3
And so those are just examples. But then we split up some chapters wrote them individually, and then looked at each others and talked about them together.

00;03;37;09 - 00;03;45;23
Speaker 1
Sounds like a great little collaboration. It was. Did you learn anything about writing or the writing process from Joyce while working on this book? So she's got so many.

00;03;45;28 - 00;04;13;11
Speaker 3
Well, I've had the advantage of working with Joyce for so long and we would just sit and talk about writing processes and her writing process and mine are very different. I love to start with an outline and decide what I want to do and then be keeping notes and working toward that outline and then begin writing. She likes to just sit down, introduction, write beginning to end.

00;04;13;23 - 00;04;31;18
Speaker 3
So our processes are very different and we knew that going in. So I think what what I learned about it is you have to do what works for you. You use the process that works best for you, but if you get to collaborate with someone else, then you do learn from each other. And so it was really fun to do it that way.

00;04;31;23 - 00;04;36;08
Speaker 3
To see how it was different, but it worked together cohesively.

00;04;36;18 - 00;04;38;21
Speaker 1
Why is now the time for book rejection?

00;04;38;24 - 00;05;05;20
Speaker 3
Oh wow. I think the world is at a place where so many people feel rejected because it's just easy to hide behind social media and say anything. You want, you know, there's no face to it. And those words are still cutting. And I think there are so many angry people in the world because of the state that so many different things are in, that we take that anger out on each other.

00;05;05;27 - 00;05;36;07
Speaker 3
There are so many relationships that are in bad shape and as a person who believes in God and really believes that he's working in all of these areas to help us, I think that the world is at a place right now where we need to talk about this more than ever. Because Joyce and I were talking this is this is important right now because it's such an epidemic for the world.

00;05;36;07 - 00;05;42;20
Speaker 3
And we believe that God wants to do something to help us all get through it and to learn how to deal with it better.

00;05;43;02 - 00;06;02;06
Speaker 1
And that's something I've noticed on like tick tock a lot lately. There's a lot of talk talks about having ADHD, but also like a side of that is our SD, a rejection sensitive dysphoria and how that plays into it. And like so many people have ADHD now, or we're realizing that and how that plays into how we see the world.

00;06;02;27 - 00;06;08;15
Speaker 1
So for someone who doesn't come from a faith background, why would they why should they pick up this book?

00;06;08;19 - 00;06;35;24
Speaker 3
Yeah, we all deal with rejection no matter who we are, no matter how our personality is, we deal with it differently. But we're all going to get rejected at one way. Or another. And so then the question is how much power am I going to let rejection have over me? And so if we can deal with that in a healthy way and not just ignore it or not feel guilty because I feel weak, because rejection hurt me.

00;06;36;03 - 00;07;07;14
Speaker 3
And, you know, there are so many different ways that we respond whether you're a person of faith or not. You have this issue to deal with in your life. And if you're willing to look for all the possible answers and to see what might help you most, this is an option to look at because I have seen faith work in my life to heal me and believe me, I was so angry at God for some of the rejections that I faced that I tried it without faith for a long time, too, and that was not successful.

00;07;08;03 - 00;07;13;18
Speaker 3
So that's why I would say, give it a shot. What have you got to lose? Pick this up.

00;07;14;00 - 00;07;14;06
Speaker 2
Well.

00;07;14;23 - 00;07;33;13
Speaker 3
Take a look at some of the suggestions, because it really is a process. And if something doesn't work for you, then you try something else. And there are so many different ideas of what will help us actually in the Bible, so that's why I say it's a great place to find healing.

00;07;33;21 - 00;07;45;19
Speaker 1
This isn't just a Facebook. There is a lot of other research that goes into your perspectives on rejection and how to move past it. What was the most interesting thing that you found along during your research?

00;07;45;20 - 00;07;57;20
Speaker 3
Yeah, I was fascinated by the fact that rejection impacts us physically in such a powerful way. I remember because.

00;07;58;10 - 00;07;59;15
Speaker 2
I wanted to be strong.

00;07;59;15 - 00;08;19;13
Speaker 3
You know, I always consider myself a strong person, and for a lot of time, rejection didn't seem like it was a big deal until it was like until I had a very large rejection in my life. And then it was like, How do I deal with this? So I felt because of that kind of weak, like, wow, I didn't realize is I would feel this way.

00;08;19;25 - 00;08;56;09
Speaker 3
But doing the research, learning that when your brain faces rejection and they watch a scan of how it responds, that it responds the same way as like breaking a bone, the physical pain of breaking a bone looks the same way in your brain as a catastrophic rejection. And that was fascinating to me to read the research about how real and potent and powerful rejection is gave me the permission to say, OK, you know, I'm not crazy.

00;08;56;09 - 00;09;01;13
Speaker 3
This really is is a real thing. This really hurts, and I need to deal with it accordingly.

00;09;01;24 - 00;09;13;15
Speaker 1
When you're writing a book, you are putting yourself out there for everyone, and that opens you up to rejection. So how did you prepare yourself to be rejected potentially by readers reading your yours? It's so.

00;09;13;15 - 00;09;17;03
Speaker 2
True. It's like, do I want to do this you know.

00;09;17;04 - 00;09;50;27
Speaker 3
You're exactly right. Anything you put out there in in the writing space, in a creative space, you're facing that potential of rejection but I wanted to do it so badly because I learned so much. And what Joyce has walked through in her life is it's just powerful to help people through it. And if our pain is wasted, in other words, if we don't use it to make ourselves better and to help someone else, then it just seems like such a sad catastrophe.

00;09;51;11 - 00;10;16;24
Speaker 3
So even putting yourself out with the possibility of being rejected again is worth the possibility of it making a difference for someone else's life. And healing me just a little bit more. If you don't risk, you're never going to accomplish anything. And that's what life's really all about. So that's a big part of this, is not letting the fear of rejection n roll what you do.

00;10;17;06 - 00;10;27;26
Speaker 1
You get to do a little book club with this. Before the book came out where you had some people come in, talk to them, what was it like for you as an author to get to hear from people who've read the book, how it was helping them?

00;10;28;00 - 00;10;50;20
Speaker 3
Yeah, oh, I loved it. It was so great to, first of all, sit down and talk with them through their stories and what so many of them have faced because rejection is so different for everyone. But then to hear, you know, I, I really appreciated this aspect or this thing that you wrote or I tried this and it worked.

00;10;50;26 - 00;10;53;06
Speaker 3
I mean, who, who doesn't want to.

00;10;53;06 - 00;10;54;17
Speaker 2
Share something like that?

00;10;54;23 - 00;11;11;21
Speaker 3
And hear it as an author, that that was beautiful. But I think also sitting down and comraderie with other people who've not had the exact same situation has probably but have felt many of the same things, that's a beautiful thing. I think we kind of all need to do that.

00;11;12;21 - 00;11;15;07
Speaker 1
What was the hardest part for you to put down on the page?

00;11;15;17 - 00;11;40;14
Speaker 3
Oh, wow. Well, so the big story that I sharing here, it was really personal and it was about a rejection that I faced in my marriage. And with my husband. And so that was really hard to I shared it in some ways, but not like this, not on this broad of a scale and not this deep into some of the details.

00;11;40;27 - 00;11;47;11
Speaker 3
And so it was difficult because what you find when you start doing that, first of all, is it stirs things up. And I start getting mad again.

00;11;48;02 - 00;11;50;25
Speaker 2
You just start getting really angry at him again.

00;11;51;11 - 00;12;18;18
Speaker 3
And, you know, we are doing great. And he has worked hard and I have worked hard and we've come so far. But when you begin to dig up some of those things, it it's a really hard emotional journey to walk through. But again, I also found how it just kind of continued that healing process for me. And I've talked to so many people who've been through similar, similar betrayals like that in their marriage.

00;12;19;04 - 00;12;30;16
Speaker 3
And I know how we need to hear that from each other because we always feel like we're the only one and so it's really important to be able to do that. But boy, it's hard. It does not feel good when you do it.

00;12;31;03 - 00;12;35;20
Speaker 1
You've been in TV for many, many years, so what has the TV.

00;12;35;21 - 00;12;40;22
Speaker 2
Many, many years? It sounds like decades and decades, which is true. But, you know.

00;12;40;24 - 00;12;45;04
Speaker 1
I was good in the book. I could have said the number, but I was not going to say the number.

00;12;45;04 - 00;12;46;13
Speaker 2
Thank you for your kindness.

00;12;47;12 - 00;13;08;26
Speaker 1
Just many, many. I was a TV other than TV for many, many. You have more than a decade. So it's a nicer ways we're not old. We're not old at all. So what did you learn about writing it from your TV experience that has helped you with This is not your first book, but it has helped you with writing books?

00;13;08;26 - 00;13;34;19
Speaker 3
Yeah, storytelling is a huge thing, whether you're in television, whether you're writing a book. And I love the different methods and different aspects of storytelling because if you're not telling a story well, if you're just writing down facts, then you're not touching the emotions. So I learned so much about that. And when I when I study for television, I also, you know, studied for for print writing.

00;13;34;19 - 00;14;09;19
Speaker 3
So I had the tools, but putting it into action, you know, that's a whole different thing. So I love both disciplines, but they're very different. You you write in a different manner for each. So I learned a lot along the way. But also I think that whole aspect of telling a powerful story in a way that pulls people in to see their own life, that's that's a really wonderful treasure to to get to be part of to do myself.

00;14;09;19 - 00;14;21;24
Speaker 3
I love to do it. But also to share it with somebody else. And then, like you said, like in that book club, to hear someone say, you know, I, I loved hearing the way that you describe that. And I thought, yeah, that's exactly how I felt.

00;14;22;08 - 00;14;45;12
Speaker 1
A great example of this is the cicada story because I was like, where is she going with this? It's like, oh, yeah, I remember this time when we I had all these cousins everywhere. I'm like, How does this tie into rejection? So talk me through your, like, process of going, Oh, this little thing from the past or this little story could tie into this in this way and kind of creating those connections.

00;14;45;12 - 00;15;05;10
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think my brain just kind of works in those ways. So for instance, with that, I was talking about how when we face a rejection, that's all we can hear or see. And we just expect that when those bugs came out and they were everywhere in the noise was so loud, that was all you could hear or see.

00;15;05;21 - 00;15;25;09
Speaker 3
So there is something really important in building a visual picture for someone to understand what you're talking about. You know, I can just say this is what happened, but if I can connect it to something that someone else might understand and really just to add interest, you know, it's so important that.

00;15;25;23 - 00;15;27;02
Speaker 2
When I write that.

00;15;27;02 - 00;15;42;03
Speaker 3
I'm not bored. So I don't want my reader to be bored. I want to have fun with it, you know, and I want to have some visualization of something that's going to make someone connect to it in a different way. So that's that's just something that my brain kind of do does. And it's probably something that.

00;15;42;14 - 00;15;45;02
Speaker 2
I need from other people when they're doing it.

00;15;45;02 - 00;15;59;23
Speaker 3
Too. I love to read. And so, you know, a great book comes to life and you want to go back and spend more time with those characters because they, you know, they feel like friends. And so that's really important is I'm sharing my story as a friend.

00;16;00;04 - 00;16;14;01
Speaker 1
Well, talking as a friend. Yeah. As do a lot of really fun stuff. And that involves travel. What have you learned from traveling that is kind of helped you in how you see the world and how you can write better stories? Well, I.

00;16;14;16 - 00;16;28;00
Speaker 3
I love the experience that you get by seeing new things and meeting new people and going different places. And it's just a huge part of what brings me joy.

00;16;28;01 - 00;16;30;21
Speaker 2
Think what's important to me, kind of my existence.

00;16;30;27 - 00;16;56;27
Speaker 3
And every place I go, I learn so much. So traveling all over the world, whether it's for work, with Joyce Meyer Ministries, we get to do that or whether it's for pleasure, you know, with family, with my husband, there's always something that I find that I learn. And it's kind of like you were saying, it's like, oh, wow, this was not only amazing, but it connects to what I'm dealing with in real life.

00;16;57;09 - 00;17;03;23
Speaker 3
For instance, we we just went to Alaska and we were hanging out with brown bears. We were.

00;17;04;12 - 00;17;06;17
Speaker 2
Sounds crazy. We were watching.

00;17;06;17 - 00;17;30;17
Speaker 3
Grizzly Bears, and it was so fun. But all along the way, I'm thinking what all I could learn from this experience with the grizzly bears. First of all, don't be stupid. Things are dangerous out there. So there are just so many lessons. But then also just the way they interact with each other, the things that I needed to do to enjoy this but still be smart.

00;17;31;13 - 00;17;41;24
Speaker 3
We got chased by a couple of grizzly bears, like in realizing I have to do what I learned and not do what my body's telling me.

00;17;41;24 - 00;17;42;13
Speaker 2
To do, which is.

00;17;42;13 - 00;17;47;15
Speaker 3
Run because you don't want to run. And so, you know, the bears, they were actually chasing us.

00;17;47;16 - 00;17;49;05
Speaker 2
It just sounds funny to say it.

00;17;49;05 - 00;18;07;03
Speaker 3
That way, but they just turned to one another direction. Everything was fine. It was a nonevent. But the first reaction, you know, is am I going to put into action what I've learned or am I going to panic and scream and run away and be eaten by a bear? No, I don't want to do that. So there's so much to learn in life and through experiences.

00;18;07;03 - 00;18;16;12
Speaker 3
So, yes, travel and all of the beautiful and even the hard things and the not so beautiful things. There's lessons in all of them.

00;18;16;18 - 00;18;20;19
Speaker 1
How do you train yourself to keep your eyes open for those kind of lessons while you're out about?

00;18;20;19 - 00;18;45;22
Speaker 3
Well, that's one of my favorite things is really, really believing that there's wonder around every corner. So you do have to train yourself to be open to that, to be looking for that. Everyone talks about being present, being in the moment, but you have to train yourself to be able to do that because otherwise you're thinking of that reservation that you're late for, or is your hotel going to be nice enough or whatever it might be?

00;18;45;22 - 00;19;15;22
Speaker 3
Are you staying somewhere? That's a rat hole because we've done that too. So I think it really is a matter of the more you do it, the more you want of it. So that's a great way to be trained. I don't want to miss something because I remember that last thing and wow, it was astounding. And just realizing that this world, it's a hard place, but it's also a beautiful, amazing place with so much to glean from it.

00;19;16;00 - 00;19;22;09
Speaker 3
And I just believe that God has put wonder in every corner of our lives and we should go seek it.

00;19;22;26 - 00;19;33;08
Speaker 1
That we're going to go real fun kind of a stretch OK, but I know you're a big Trekkie. It's true. What have you learned about facing rejection from being a Star Trek fan?

00;19;33;12 - 00;19;35;08
Speaker 3
Oh, my goodness. OK, there's so.

00;19;35;08 - 00;19;36;12
Speaker 2
Many ways that I could go.

00;19;36;12 - 00;20;01;02
Speaker 3
With this so I could go really nerdy into the characters and talk about the rejection that, for instance, Spock felt when he was trying not to be human and and trying to be Vulcan at the same time to have no emotions. That's a lot. I mean, how many of us when we face rejection have just tried to push those emotions away so I could go there or.

00;20;01;06 - 00;20;04;22
Speaker 2
I could go the whole direction of being.

00;20;04;22 - 00;20;15;19
Speaker 3
A Trekkie nerd and how people can make fun of you there and reject you for that. But I don't care because I love it. And so I'm good with all that sci fi in general. You know.

00;20;16;20 - 00;20;22;19
Speaker 2
There there's a lot that I adore and love and makes me so happy.

00;20;22;28 - 00;20;30;26
Speaker 3
And but people don't always expect it and they can not be great about it. You know, they can make fun of it again. What am I going to choose.

00;20;30;26 - 00;20;31;26
Speaker 2
To do with those.

00;20;31;26 - 00;20;36;20
Speaker 3
Kind of rejections? I don't know. I could I can I can make more connections if you want.

00;20;36;24 - 00;20;58;17
Speaker 1
I was reading Ray Wilson's book, and he had a chapter that was like Star Trek quotes or religious texts. And I was just like, Why does this work so well? That is also true. It is so true. Yeah. I could go either way. Sometimes it was wild but if you were to write in a fandom, would it be Star Trek or would you pick something else?

00;20;58;24 - 00;20;59;22
Speaker 2
Oh, wow.

00;21;00;02 - 00;21;06;19
Speaker 3
It probably would be Star Trek. But there's a lot to do in so many of these.

00;21;06;19 - 00;21;06;27
Speaker 2
Other.

00;21;06;27 - 00;21;15;25
Speaker 3
Worlds. And then some of the lesser known I don't know, it's too hard of a question. It's just too hard.

00;21;17;03 - 00;21;26;12
Speaker 1
And this is something that I've come across a lot too of, like, well, if you're a Christian, how can you be part of fandom? How do you approach that balance?

00;21;26;22 - 00;21;51;14
Speaker 3
I think there's no disparity there. I really don't. I mean, of course, we have to be careful with what we take into our minds. I mean, look, let's just look at everyone, whether you're a spiritual person or not, what you allow into your mind is really important. But it's not just a thought that drops into your head. It's what you do with it, right?

00;21;51;24 - 00;22;26;12
Speaker 3
So honestly, when I'm reading some things, I'll skip some parts now and then there's some really spicy books that I like the series is of, but I don't need for me all that. So I'll skip parts here and there, but I don't think you have to throw everything out because that's my conviction. It's not everyone's conviction. And, you know, I think there's just so much that that we can connect, just like you said, to your spiritual life and fantasy.

00;22;26;12 - 00;22;52;01
Speaker 3
That's exactly what Tolkien did. That's what C.S. Lewis did. I mean, there's so much to learn there by letting your brain think differently, by creating a new universe where you can explore different things that you don't see in front of you. And actually, the entire spiritual world is a whole dimension that we can't see anyway with our own physical eyes.

00;22;52;07 - 00;23;00;02
Speaker 3
So pretty much the Bible is the same thing. You know, there's that whole spiritual dimension to explore.

00;23;00;27 - 00;23;01;29
Speaker 1
Anything else you want, talk about.

00;23;02;22 - 00;23;41;12
Speaker 3
I think one thing that's really important is for people just to not close their minds to potential. So whether that potential is the beauty in travel or a new experience or the beauty and creativity of a new world in a book that they're reading, you know, a whole new reality that they're learning about. But there's there's also so much that we have to open our mind to to where we are in our own life and why we are making the choices that we're making.

00;23;41;12 - 00;24;06;15
Speaker 3
And why we are responding to people the way that we are responding to. So don't close your eyes to the fact that there may be wounds in our lives that we need to deal with. There may be rejections that we need to deal with. I think this this book on rejection is is so vital to people because we don't realize how rejection is shaping our lives.

00;24;06;24 - 00;24;25;01
Speaker 3
And until we begin to ask ourselves to open our minds to those possibilities, then we can never truly be healed. So I just think if if we can allow ourselves to explore different possibilities that's when we become the most healthy we can possibly be also.

00;24;25;15 - 00;24;29;29
Speaker 1
But the last question we always ask, because this is literary hype. What books are you hyped about right now?

00;24;30;06 - 00;24;57;27
Speaker 3
So I'm currently reading the Red Rising series, and I know, you know, it's been a little while people have been doing it, but I just picked it up not long ago. My daughter suggested it enjoying it. And so, yeah, that's where I am right now. I'm in I'm in the second book and again, it's just creating that alternate universe, some new existence that that I love, that I enjoy.

00;24;58;02 - 00;25;15;26
Speaker 3
And it has a lot of so many other things as I'm reading it that I'm like, I'm seeing Braveheart here, you know, very much. I'm, I'm seeing so many other aspects of classic literature and sci fi that I love and enjoy. So that's where I am right now.

00;25;16;01 - 00;25;17;20
Speaker 1
I like to call that World Hunger Games and Space.

00;25;17;25 - 00;25;21;13
Speaker 3
It is definitely it's so definitely hunger games, but I'm looking for other.

00;25;21;13 - 00;25;23;28
Speaker 2
Connections to that. You're right. It absolutely is.

00;25;24;03 - 00;25;27;11
Speaker 1
Thanks so much for talking to literary hype about healing the wounds of rejection.

00;25;27;11 - 00;25;28;29
Speaker 2
Thank you. I appreciate it. It's been.

00;25;28;29 - 00;25;29;10
Speaker 3
Fun.

00;25;32;18 - 00;25;49;06
Speaker 1
Thanks again to Ginger for hanging out with me to talk all about her brand new book that she co-wrote with Joyce Meyer Healing the Wounds of Rejection. If you'd like to get a hold of this book or Ginger's previous book, the links to do so are down in the description, as well as Where to Find Ginger on social media and a link to that book club discussion that we talked about.

00;25;49;12 - 00;26;01;06
Speaker 1
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