101: JESSICA S. OLSON: A magical villain romance, heists, and selecting the best snacks

This week on LiteraryHype Podcast, Jessica S. Olson joins me for a quick chat about her latest YA novel, Den Of Liars. It's a heist story full of magic and a villain romance. Plus, were talking about top tier snacks and so much more.

About the book:

Lola St. James is the world’s best kept secret. When her father gambles away the knowledge of her existence in the Liar's Dice Tournament, she is rescued by the Thief, the notorious leader of a magical gang known as the Tentacles. But this kindness comes with a price: her heart.

Now, Lola and the Thief have a bond like no other, able to feel each other’s emotions because of their shared heart. Determined to prove herself and become a full-fledged Tentacle, Lola undertakes a critical heist. When it goes sideways, the only way forward is for Lola to compete in the Liar’s Dice Tournament herself.

Lola is confident in her ability to pull off any heist, but the Thief's mysterious brother, the Liar, runs the game and he turns out to be more than she bargained for. As her attraction for him grows and illusions run wild, she will be forced to confront the secrets of her past, the truth of the brothers’ shared history, and the lies she tells herself.

 
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Transcript

00;00;03;11 - 00;00;22;01
Speaker 1
Hi and welcome to Literary Hype. I am Stephanie your literary high five. And today's author conversation is one from San Diego Comic-Con where we got to squeeze it right before I went off to do a panel. And that author is Jessica Olson and her book is The Den of Liars. This is a casino heist in a magical world.

00;00;22;12 - 00;00;31;06
Speaker 1
Kind of got some Bonnie and Clyde ish vibes. Lots of lots to talk about on this one. So without any further ado, here's my conversation with Jessica Olson.

00;00;35;28 - 00;00;40;26
Speaker 2
Well, welcome to Literary 78 in the room with your brand new book of Liars.

00;00;40;26 - 00;00;42;15
Speaker 3
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

00;00;42;23 - 00;00;47;15
Speaker 2
So for anybody who hasn't already seen this on social media or in their bookstores, what has done the Fires All.

00;00;47;15 - 00;01;07;10
Speaker 3
About Fires is the first in a duo ology. It's a violent, romantic view about a young thief who enters a casino tournament to play a magical game in order to try to steal the secret of the man who runs it. So it's got like illusion magic. It's got thievery and heists and romance.

00;01;07;27 - 00;01;14;02
Speaker 2
Building romance is a kind of groaning. What made you want it to include the villain and has the romance part of it?

00;01;14;07 - 00;01;29;27
Speaker 3
I absolutely love villains. I feel like villains are some of the most interesting characters in books. Just like something about that figuring out why they are doing the things that they're doing is so intriguing to me. And I also think that it always makes for a really good, bad boy and love interest, which is really fun.

00;01;30;07 - 00;01;33;21
Speaker 2
Most definitely. What was your initial spark for this story?

00;01;34;00 - 00;01;55;18
Speaker 3
So it actually came from the game, Larry, so I don't know if you've heard of it. So I think it's originally like a pirate type game but we had we have like a box game of that at my house. And one time I was looking at it in the closet and I thought, Oh, that would be kind of a cool name for a book, but like, what would that book be about?

00;01;56;00 - 00;02;14;14
Speaker 3
He's the liar. What are his dice? What is so special about those dice? And from there, it kind of just like grew into this idea of the liar as this mysterious magician kind of guy. And then and then I kind of had the idea to also have another brother that was the thief and the date and how would they play off each other and everything.

00;02;14;14 - 00;02;16;11
Speaker 3
And so it kind of just grew from there.

00;02;16;11 - 00;02;21;19
Speaker 2
And it was really fun. This book is dedicated to everyone who believed a liar. What's the story behind that dedication?

00;02;21;28 - 00;02;44;14
Speaker 3
I feel like everybody probably at some point in their lives finds out that they have believed something that wasn't true and that can go anywhere from being, you know, mildly hurtful to being like pretty traumatic to mine, like betrayal, trauma. And and I think that it was something that I felt like most people could relate to. And it was really important for me in my journey in my life.

00;02;44;14 - 00;02;59;01
Speaker 3
I had it. I had a pretty a pretty devastating betrayal that happened in my life. And so that was a really, I don't know, a really important thing for me to express in a story. I felt like because I don't see that, you know, talks to me as much as I'd like to myself.

00;02;59;09 - 00;03;09;22
Speaker 2
So you touch on that on Instagram, both like 20, 20 was really here for you. And that's how this book came to be. So what was it like for you turning your trauma into art for other people to read?

00;03;09;23 - 00;03;29;00
Speaker 3
I mean, at the time it was very therapeutic. I was like, This is my therapy. I'm not writing a book. I'm like dealing with my trauma. But then, you know, as time passed, if I realized it was very like, I don't know, I, I felt like I was sharing a piece of me with people in a way that you don't really often get to do in real life.

00;03;29;00 - 00;03;50;29
Speaker 3
Because a lot of times we're all very like closed off about our traumas and we keep them very close to the chest. And so in this way, even though, you know, the things that I've gone through are so very private, like I'm able to share them in a way with other people, you know, and we can connect, you know, in that way and say, Oh, we've had this shared experience and your experience may be different than mine, but we have this commonality.

00;03;50;29 - 00;03;58;09
Speaker 2
What's it like for you as a writer to be able to create that connection with other people and see them reciprocate, feel like, Oh, I understand you.

00;03;58;15 - 00;04;17;26
Speaker 3
I absolutely love being an author because I feel like there is this universal human experience that we get to tap into a little bit where you know, oftentimes it feels like we're so solitary in our walk through this life or whatever, but when we have these stories that we can all come together and say, I have experienced something like that, I know what that feels like.

00;04;17;26 - 00;04;36;14
Speaker 3
I have been where that character is. And we can see how many other people have also had that, you know, common experience, even though we've watched different lives and known different people and had different experiences I feel like it's this really unifying thing that makes it possible for, you know, bridges to be made across cultures and across peoples, across countries.

00;04;36;14 - 00;04;38;09
Speaker 3
Like, I think it's a really powerful thing.

00;04;38;24 - 00;04;47;18
Speaker 2
So goal is to be kidnaped and brought into this life. And she talks about that at the beginning of the book about the courage of her dad. And I'm looking for.

00;04;48;29 - 00;04;49;07
Speaker 3
A little bit.

00;04;49;08 - 00;04;51;12
Speaker 2
About crushing this character with such a deep.

00;04;52;01 - 00;05;14;25
Speaker 3
I think it was really important to have a character that had that really, really different because I think it's it's one of those things where a character is only as interesting as the things that they're thinking and the things that they're working through in their in their journey. You know, we don't there's often talked about the Mary Steve character where it's just like this little cardboard character that does things.

00;05;15;05 - 00;05;38;19
Speaker 3
And I think if we can give characters a really rich backstory that shows that they've been places and done things, especially as teens, because, you know, they have a shorter amount of time to experience a lot. And so if you can give them a really grounding experience that can, you know, really define them and have to force them to grow in a way that, you know, might not have happened otherwise.

00;05;40;07 - 00;05;46;05
Speaker 3
I don't know. I just feel like it makes for a really much more compelling story and it makes for more interesting dynamics with the other characters.

00;05;46;14 - 00;06;04;28
Speaker 2
One thing I was really amused by early on in this book is like how she calls out, like the police speak of like, do you know how ridiculous you sound and as a journalist, like, have to keep in mind, like, this is not how normal people talk. Let's talk a little bit about the fun of playing with voice in that way.

00;06;05;04 - 00;06;30;13
Speaker 3
I felt like, especially in the interactions between Lola and the Thief, I was really able to kind of, I don't know, kind of capture the way they're like real people talk and like this like banter of like joking around and having inside jokes and like pointing out like the weird things in their world or whatever. And I and I felt like it would be a lot more grounding for the character, you know, people, not characters, people, readers who, you know, don't live in this world.

00;06;30;13 - 00;06;42;08
Speaker 3
They don't know what it is. And so it's kind of this like focal point where they can make get into the story and say like, hey, I agree with that. That also sounds ridiculous. And like and then it kind of feels like an avenue towards like, you know, embodying that.

00;06;42;08 - 00;06;44;17
Speaker 2
World because no one runs around going quote.

00;06;44;24 - 00;06;45;14
Speaker 3
Exactly.

00;06;45;25 - 00;07;07;08
Speaker 2
Than police or perpetrators, just like we always say that. Really smart. Who teaches you to talk like that? Yeah, if I'm a cop, like this in the is this in the manual or with the magic? There's a lot of fun throughout this book. So tell me a bit about how you process creating a magic system that makes sense for your world.

00;07;07;17 - 00;07;27;25
Speaker 3
So that was kind of fun because I wanted the thief and the liar to have different, different powers but they needed to have some kind of unifying factor. Like, how does it make sense that they have these different powers? There needs to be a consistent source. And so yeah, initially it started with, you know, that initial thought where I was like, What are the layers doing?

00;07;27;25 - 00;07;46;17
Speaker 3
So what does he do with them? And so I started figuring out like, what's my magic? What would he do if he were like, a master liar? What sorts of things would he keep in his days? And so that kind of branched out to include, like, what he could have. He could hold secrets in the dice, and if you roll them, then their secrets can reveal because you know what are lies used for other than to keep secrets.

00;07;46;27 - 00;08;05;22
Speaker 3
And and then, you know, as I developed the fact that he would have illusion magic I thought that would only, you know, be more fun to also have him have some special dice that you can roll to, you know, cast illusions. And so that was really fun to develop. But then I was like, OK, well, but how does that work with the thief?

00;08;05;22 - 00;08;26;25
Speaker 3
Because I need the thief to have coffee magic. And so from there, it kind of developed into this. Well, what if they gain their powers from stars and different stars have different powers. And so there's a unifying source, the stars. But, you know, each one has a different, you know, ability that it can come out. And so that was really fun to develop.

00;08;27;24 - 00;08;44;02
Speaker 3
And it was different from anything I've ever done before in a book it was just yeah, it was a lot of fun to play with. I really felt I mean, more than any of my other books have in the past, it really felt like just like playing, having a lot of fun and like, what else could this do is really, I don't know, gratifying.

00;08;45;11 - 00;08;50;14
Speaker 2
So something went to a copy editor in the past. What did you learn from that that has helped you the most in writing?

00;08;50;21 - 00;09;14;02
Speaker 3
I got my minor in college and editing, and then I worked as a copy editor for a little while. And I don't know, it's always been really helpful to the point where like, you know, when I get to the copy editing stage, usually it's like pretty spare. Like, you know, there's not as much to do at that point, but it's been really, you know, exciting for me when I can like turn in something that's like fairly clean.

00;09;14;02 - 00;09;29;08
Speaker 3
I mean, obviously we have to do edits on like the content and stuff, but having something that, you know, I knew where the I know where the punctuation goes. I know how things are spelled and and having that background made it a lot easier for me to kind of make that jump into publishing where, you know, I understand editor speak.

00;09;29;08 - 00;09;36;21
Speaker 3
I know you know what what to expect and that kind of, you know, eased my journey into the publishing world because I had some familiarity with it.

00;09;37;01 - 00;09;48;03
Speaker 2
I saw a line in your bio. There was a line that made me laugh your carefully curated selection of snacks. Yes. What is in your carefully collected, carefully curated selection settings?

00;09;48;09 - 00;10;07;26
Speaker 3
I am a carbohydrate girl through and through. I love me some carbs. I love pretzels specifically are my favorite. I also really love popcorn, so I eat a lot of those and I think on my bio it also mentions peanut butter. I usually have a spoonful of peanut butter. So it's like if I need a snack, I might go to the pantry.

00;10;07;26 - 00;10;10;29
Speaker 3
I'm very, you know, predictable in that way. I'm like, where's my pretzels?

00;10;11;18 - 00;10;12;26
Speaker 2
Soft pretzels are hard pretzels.

00;10;12;27 - 00;10;23;10
Speaker 3
Oh, I love soft pretzels. But like on a day to day basis, I just have a better, like, you know, the crunchy kind. But every time I go to the airport, I got to stop at the AT&T and and there's something like, I need some of that.

00;10;23;19 - 00;10;29;26
Speaker 2
Dude, something that's really good. That's it sticks. Which you say to try, though. There's like $2 and it just makes me so happy.

00;10;29;26 - 00;10;51;02
Speaker 3
I recently have this goal to make, you know, used type recipes to try to get more comfortable with yeast. And I tried a homemade pretzel like soft pretzel recipe, and it was like, it was like, so, like, good, like it was delicious, but it's like so bad because I, like, eat the whole batch. I was like, I need to never make those again because of the face.

00;10;51;13 - 00;10;52;21
Speaker 3
This is really bad for my health.

00;10;53;24 - 00;10;56;00
Speaker 2
Unfortunately, I used.

00;10;56;12 - 00;10;59;16
Speaker 3
To go 12 soft pretzels a day it's not, you know.

00;11;00;04 - 00;11;01;28
Speaker 2
That I had to bring it.

00;11;02;06 - 00;11;11;19
Speaker 3
I know, right? It's true. When I was growing up, the biggest part of the food pyramid was the carbohydrate. But like I feel like that means I should just be able to eat all carbs.

00;11;11;19 - 00;11;14;00
Speaker 2
I think that that validates it. It's called science, right?

00;11;14;00 - 00;11;14;13
Speaker 3
Science.

00;11;15;17 - 00;11;17;19
Speaker 2
So what can you tell us about materialistic biology?

00;11;17;27 - 00;11;39;18
Speaker 3
Book two has three POVs instead of two. I bet you can maybe guess a third of years. And yeah, it takes you know, the first book took place largely in the casino and book two. Definitely. Like we're just not out to put a lot more of the city. There's another game involved and yeah, I think that's all I can really say about it.

00;11;39;18 - 00;11;44;16
Speaker 3
But there will be more shenanigans with the beach and more romance with the liar and it'll be really fun.

00;11;45;03 - 00;11;47;00
Speaker 2
Can you say title or when it's coming.

00;11;47;12 - 00;11;58;26
Speaker 3
And so the title is an official paraphilia, but it is coming fall 20 or 26 and literally like work. I was literally working on it yesterday in my hotel, so hopefully it'll be ready where you are.

00;11;59;16 - 00;12;03;17
Speaker 2
So the last question we always ask because this is literary hype, what books are you hyped about right now?

00;12;04;00 - 00;12;23;15
Speaker 3
Ooh, that's a really good question. I'm really excited about Rebecca Ross's new book that's coming out while reference because I really enjoy designer angles. I know, right? And then for books that have already come out that I haven't read yet, I just got my copy of Barrier to the Midnight Oil Baby Swap, and I'm like a Die Hard being short.

00;12;23;18 - 00;12;36;16
Speaker 3
And so I am very excited to dove into that once I turn in my sequel draft, I'm like, That is my dangling carrot. But like when I finish this book, then I can go read the book. I could die. So those are the things I really excited about. Well, thank.

00;12;36;16 - 00;12;38;28
Speaker 2
You so much for hanging out with literary hypertension sometimes.

00;12;39;08 - 00;12;41;11
Speaker 3
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

00;12;43;26 - 00;12;59;24
Speaker 1
Thanks again to Jessica for getting up early on a San Diego comic on Saturday to talk about her book, Den of Liars. If you want to check this book out, the links to do so are down in the description for you, as well as where to find her on social media. If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to subscribe to the Literary Hype podcast.

00;12;59;24 - 00;13;06;08
Speaker 1
Give us some stars and leave a little review so people know you're loving it. Thanks so much for listening to the Literary Tide podcast.