108. MARY KUBICA: Crafting a mystery inspired by a real case as a pantser in "It's Not Her"

This week on LiteraryHype Podcast, Mary Kubica joins me to talk about her latest mystery/thriller novel, "It's Not Her". This book starts with a wild murder that's ripped from the headlines and the ending left me shocked. Mary and I are chatting all about her writing process as a pantser with a load of red herrings.

Leave a comment with your answer to my question for Mary: would you be like Courtney and investigate yourself or let the officials handle it?

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The Other Mrs.
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It's Not Her
The Other Mrs.
The Good Girl
Local Woman Missing
She's Not Sorry

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It's Not Her
The Other Mrs.
The Good Girl
Local Woman Missing
She's Not Sorry

Transcript

00;00;02;26 - 00;00;09;29
Unknown
Hi, and welcome to Literary Hype. I am Stephanie, your literary hype woman. Back with another author conversation for Literary Hype podcast.

00;00;10;05 - 00;00;17;22
Unknown
Today's guest is an author who is celebrating publishing her 10th novel. We are talking about book number ten for Mary Cabeca.

00;00;17;26 - 00;00;35;26
Unknown
She's really grown in popularity in the mystery thriller space, and so it's super fun to get to have her on the show to talk about her newest book. It's not her and why this is such a special book to me personally.

00;00;35;29 - 00;00;41;06
Unknown
welcome to Literary Hype. It's so exciting to have you on to talk about your brand new book. It's Not Her.

00;00;41;10 - 00;00;43;16
Unknown
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

00;00;43;19 - 00;00;51;18
Unknown
Before we get into the book itself, we gotta we gotta talk about a little special connection and why I'm so excited for this book.

00;00;51;20 - 00;01;03;08
Unknown
So about a year ago, your publisher reached out and was like, hey, do you want to write a blurb for this? So, so talk to me about how that whole idea of having influencers blurb your book and have it printed in the book came about?

00;01;03;12 - 00;01;11;23
Unknown
Yeah. You know, it's just, you know, the team knows that, you know, how important influencers are these days to to readers and just the general public.

00;01;11;23 - 00;01;34;21
Unknown
And so, I mean, the Bookstagram community and Booktok community, they have exploded. And, I mean, I feel like that word of mouth is just so huge. You know, you can get all the media hits in the world, but there is nothing like people going on social media and talking about books online. And so we just knew that we wanted to include more influencers in this process, because they are just so instrumental in getting book sales.

00;01;34;23 - 00;01;43;26
Unknown
Has anything changed for me? Because this has been a while. It was a word doc when we got it. Has anything changed in the editing process since then?

00;01;44;02 - 00;01;56;13
Unknown
Yeah, so I don't know exactly where are you? Like which version of it you saw, but my guess is it was it was basically done, like maybe there was some copyright it's still to go through and like shout out to copy editors.

00;01;56;13 - 00;02;07;25
Unknown
They are pretty amazing at like finding some random inconsistencies that I have and things like that in the manuscripts. And it would have gone through proofreading, but, content wise the story is the same.

00;02;07;27 - 00;02;14;27
Unknown
I once was talking to an author and I had the advance bound manuscript and she's like, oh, girl, you got to go get the finished copy because I think it's entirely different.

00;02;14;28 - 00;02;17;19
Unknown
I was like, oh no.

00;02;17;22 - 00;02;45;24
Unknown
see so many changes, you know, during that, like those, it's like those last couple of months. I feel like, I don't know, it's just sort of like a crazy process. And then, you know, for me, my publisher was my editor, and I are done. We invite other people from the publisher, like some sales people publish publicity, publicity, marketing to read a draft, you know, because it is really so subjective and to just, you know, give some feedback while it is still at draft phase and changes can be made.

00;02;45;27 - 00;02;55;04
Unknown
So there are sometimes, you know, those like last minute changes, you know, because somebody just, you know, saw something that was brilliant that other people missed. And it just it needs to be included.

00;02;55;06 - 00;03;07;10
Unknown
This has been all over the social media already. So a lot of people are familiar with what this book is. But for anybody who hasn't already seen it or popping into a bookstore seeing the promo for it, what is this book about?

00;03;07;13 - 00;03;27;18
Unknown
Yeah, so It's Not Her is my 10th book, and it is about two families that go on vacation together in the Northwoods of Wisconsin. They're from Chicago, so they just had a couple of hours. They rent a couple cottages on a lake, and it's supposed to be, you know, a peaceful kind of getaway from technology and chaos and all that and just joyous and family time.

00;03;27;20 - 00;03;47;22
Unknown
And then one night, husband and wife. This is not a spoiler because this happens, like, right away in the book, but a husband and wife are murdered in their cottage. They're discovered the following morning by their ten year old daughter who had been sleeping at her cousin's house next door. And their 14 year old son is sound asleep in one of the bedrooms, completely unharmed.

00;03;47;22 - 00;04;12;07
Unknown
He seemingly slept through the murders, and their 17 year old daughter is missing, and so nobody knows if, she is another victim or if she might have had something to do with this. So the story is told from the perspectives of Courtney, who is the surviving aunt. She was in the cottage next door. When this happens in the present, as she, you know, tries to protect the rest of her family and find her missing niece and figure out who did this.

00;04;12;09 - 00;04;21;16
Unknown
And then it's also told in the perspective of 17 year old Reese, the girl that's missing. And her narrative begins a few days before the murders, and it sort of leads right up to them.

00;04;21;23 - 00;04;28;02
Unknown
What was it like for you crafting these two perspectives in two different time frames? Like what was your process like?

00;04;28;02 - 00;04;32;02
Unknown
Yeah, so I use multiple narrators for almost all of my books.

00;04;32;02 - 00;04;52;16
Unknown
And, I love doing that. I love that it just gives the reader sort of like a comprehensive view of what's happening. But at the same time, you know, the different narrators might see things a little differently. So it also, I feel like adds to the mystery and suspense a little bit. But to make it easy on myself, I break this down into basically like two different documents.

00;04;52;16 - 00;05;10;22
Unknown
So I'll write one. I wrote Courtney first. I wrote her entire narrative from beginning to end, and with this book, it helps too, because they're not on. The two narratives are not on the exact same time frame. So I wasn't necessarily having to go back and forth. You know, one thing is happening days after the other. So so that really helped.

00;05;10;24 - 00;05;29;25
Unknown
So I wrote all of Courtney's timeline, you know, in the back of my mind, I'm starting to think about, like, how Reece's perspective is going to feed into this. But that way I can get Courtney's voice. It can just be like, totally her. And I can figure out sort of what's going on in her plotline, and then I'll set it aside and pick up with Reese.

00;05;29;25 - 00;05;56;07
Unknown
And so it's really fun. And then when it's all done, I, just start to merge and back together and of course, things have to be moved. You know, maybe sometimes something is being revealed too soon in one of the narratives. Before I'm ready for it to be revealed, you know, where the other narrative is concerned. So it's definitely requires some edits, but it's really cool to kind of take what feel like two separate ish story stories and put them together into one, and then go back and see how that reads together.

00;05;56;14 - 00;05;59;14
Unknown
Do you know the ending before you start your books?

00;05;59;21 - 00;06;14;10
Unknown
Almost never, I think so this is book ten, and I think that there were two books of two books there that I knew the ending. There were so much still that I had to figure out in the middle. But, with this book, I did not know I had missed starting points.

00;06;14;13 - 00;06;38;04
Unknown
You know, there are a lot of red herrings in the story, and a lot of times it's because I didn't know, like maybe, maybe that person did it. So I had to figure that out still. And, you know, part of that figuring it out is, you know, really, like, everybody becomes a suspect. So it's just one of my favorite parts of the process is like going in kind of lines and getting to know my characters and just sort of seeing what naturally feels right.

00;06;38;04 - 00;06;52;28
Unknown
Once I'm like, knee deep in the story. And there are times, you know, I will go off in one direction and realize, oh boy, you know, that's either not going to work or it's totally implausible or a reader is going to see that from a mile away. And so that I have to go back and go a totally different direction.

00;06;53;02 - 00;06;59;04
Unknown
But I love I mean, I think that that moment that the pieces really start to come together in my mind is my favorite part of writing

00;06;59;08 - 00;07;12;06
Unknown
I'm really good at picking up these subtle hints and like, I this is why I can't read blurbs, because I can figure it out from blurbs so often. So it's like I figured this out relatively early, but there were enough red herrings going around that I was second guessing.

00;07;12;06 - 00;07;27;19
Unknown
I was like, I think this is what's going on. But then, well, also, maybe okay, okay. Do you have like tips or tricks that you use to help keep track of all those red herrings and, and things? Make sure that you're making this make sense.

00;07;27;23 - 00;07;32;09
Unknown
I do not have, you know, like, I know Hannah Morrissey has an amazing murder board.

00;07;32;09 - 00;07;50;08
Unknown
And, you know, I do not have, like, post-it notes and everything everywhere. So I, I don't know, knock on wood, but I don't like how I've been able to keep things, keep track of things so far in my veins. And so often you go back and you make like a tiny change and you forget all the things related to it that you have just unraveled.

00;07;50;10 - 00;08;13;29
Unknown
So I think part of it is just reading the manuscript again and again and again. You know, in those final stages of the process to make sure everything connects, that all those loose ends are tied up and, you know, working towards that twist. It's it's hard because you want the reader to feel satisfied. You want them to feel like this twist was earned and not, you know, that the writer just totally threw something in at the last minute.

00;08;13;29 - 00;08;29;28
Unknown
There really doesn't make sense, you know? Or you know that the villain is that guy, that guy or woman or whatever you know, that you write about on page four. And, you know, he never revisited, so it all has to really make sense. But also, you don't want to put the clues too heavy and give it away.

00;08;29;28 - 00;08;36;15
Unknown
So it is kind of a delicate balance of like, maybe I'll feed you a little bit of information, but then I'm going to try and talk you out of this.

00;08;36;17 - 00;08;46;13
Unknown
Does it feel like when you're reading them, rereading your books, like any clues that you drop or like way too obvious and you're like questioning yourself if this is something that the reader will pick up on,

00;08;46;19 - 00;08;53;22
Unknown
like all the time, you know, and I'm always thinking, what is the reader thinking that, you know, that's like, that's prime in my mind.

00;08;53;22 - 00;09;11;22
Unknown
And, and it's hard to know for sure, you know, because I'm so close to the manuscript and the characters and a certain point, you know, I do know how the book is going to end. So then it's hard to say, you know, is it is something obvious for me because I know exactly where the book is going or is it just obvious?

00;09;11;25 - 00;09;27;28
Unknown
So, you know, and that is really where once I hands my book off to, you know, my editor and my agents and, I have a group of wonderful friends who are great readers. And so I ask them to read a draft to. And that is where getting all those extra eyes on it at that point is super helpful.

00;09;27;28 - 00;09;42;12
Unknown
You know, I know there was a book years ago that I had given to a number of people, and almost everybody was highlighting the same thing that gave it away, you know? And I was like, oh, okay, that is so good to know, because I can pull back on that, you know, while there's still time.

00;09;42;17 - 00;09;46;14
Unknown
You mentioned in the acknowledgments that this book was like one of the hardest ones you've had to write.

00;09;46;14 - 00;09;47;25
Unknown
What made this book so difficult?

00;09;48;00 - 00;10;03;14
Unknown
You know, I think I it's books are so funny because, you know, it's just like with anything, you would think the more you do it, the easier it would get. You know, the more I practice and and books like each one is its own thing. I don't know. I don't know what it is, you know.

00;10;03;14 - 00;10;23;01
Unknown
And if I could figure out, like, what the magic formula is, that makes some books like Local and Missing, it's like a dream to write. Like the characters just spoke to me and and all that. You know, I think part of it with this book, part of it too, is just like what's going on in my life at the time, you know, when am I able to focus all my energy to this book?

00;10;23;01 - 00;10;45;12
Unknown
And, when I was writing, it's not her. My daughter was looking at colleges and she's a theater major, so there was lots of auditions and it was stressful. And so I think that that was sort of taking me out of the manuscript a little bit, making it a little harder. It's also it's a it's an emotional book, you know, it's, like in all my books, a lot of bad things happen, but there's, there's just a lot of tragedy in this book.

00;10;45;12 - 00;11;05;12
Unknown
So it's it's propulsive, it's twisty. It's all of those things that suspense readers love. But it's also, you know, I think that it's like, terrifyingly possible, you know, and like, real and like this can happen. And so that was hard. So, you know, one of the like the, you know, the missing 17. And I have a daughter who's just a couple years older than her now.

00;11;05;12 - 00;11;07;05
Unknown
So it just hit really close to home.

00;11;07;11 - 00;11;18;02
Unknown
I was going to ask if be like, since receipt 17, your daughter would have been around that same age. Did that help you get inside the mind of a teenager who's stressed out, while you're writing

00;11;18;04 - 00;11;23;16
Unknown
it? Totally. Did. You know? And, I had I had a lot of fun writing her, and I really tried.

00;11;23;18 - 00;11;56;06
Unknown
And I think that I seen teenagers done before where it's just like they're overdone, you know, and teenagers are sassy and they have, like, this language of their own. And I wanted to include all of that. But I also wanted to make Reese really vulnerable and relatable. So I did, you know, I relied a lot on just some of the things that I was seeing or hearing in my own home, but also kind of like thinking back to what it was like to be 17 myself and just how difficult that time is, you know, you just feel so vulnerable and you're really you don't have that, kind of self-assurance that I think just comes

00;11;56;06 - 00;12;08;20
Unknown
with time and age and, and now with social media now, I mean, it's a whole thing that I didn't have to deal with when I was a teenager. And, so I just really tried to pull from all of those kind of sources to really inspire this character

00;12;08;23 - 00;12;12;27
Unknown
with Courtney. She is trying to figure out what went down.

00;12;13;00 - 00;12;18;22
Unknown
Would you be one who is like Courtney and trying to figure out what happened? Or would you kind of just leave it to the professionals?

00;12;18;27 - 00;12;43;21
Unknown
I mean, I might write dark stuff, but I am aware I'm not what I would be. I mean, I would be terrified. You know, there are and Courtney kind of has this balance between she's afraid, but she has to really step up and protect you know, when her brother and sister in law, you know, our murdered, she now has to care for her 14 year old nephew and her ten year old niece, and also figure out where her other nieces and so there's a lot.

00;12;43;21 - 00;12;58;03
Unknown
And she has her own daughter, too. And, you know, so it's hard to say. I mean, I think that I would want to, you know, I would want to get to the bottom of it. I want to protect my family and all those things. But there are things Courtney does that I'm like, I could not do that.

00;12;58;06 - 00;13;03;20
Unknown
There are things people do in a lot of books, and it's like, were you thinking this through?

00;13;03;22 - 00;13;07;03
Unknown
So this is a good choice.

00;13;07;06 - 00;13;15;27
Unknown
Solid line that this was based or inspired by a real case. So talk a little bit about the, the case and how this led to you being inspired to write the story.

00;13;16;04 - 00;13;23;13
Unknown
Yeah, for sure. And it's like it's so loosely inspired. It's really just sort of the set up. And then they go completely off in their own directions.

00;13;23;13 - 00;13;42;07
Unknown
But I'm a big true crime, you know, junkie. I just I listen to the podcast. So I watch all the, you know, the shows on TV. And I was listening. This would have been a couple years ago, but I was listening to a podcast and it's, was on the Keddie Cabin Murders, which they're pretty well known, but I had never heard of them until that moment.

00;13;42;07 - 00;14;01;23
Unknown
And, it was a back in 1981, in Katy, California, and there was a mother and her children who were living in a cabin. And, it was kind of like a resort community type thing. And one night it was it was a very similar setup and that her, one of her daughters had gone to a sleepover, next door.

00;14;01;24 - 00;14;24;04
Unknown
And when that daughter came home the next day, she found her mother, her teenage brother and one of the brother's friends had all been murdered in the cabin. Her own brother is two brothers, and one of their friends were sound asleep in one of the bedrooms and another sister was missing. And in hearing this, I mean, I just was so sad and so tragic.

00;14;24;07 - 00;14;47;02
Unknown
My mind's like my writer mind that, you know, always goes off in different directions, but it immediately thought, are these kids suspects? Could they have done it in reality? You know, the other missing, daughter in this in the Katy Cabin murders was years later, her, her remains were found. She was another victim in this murder. And the boys who were asleep in the home were like five and ten years old.

00;14;47;02 - 00;15;05;19
Unknown
So they were, like, way too young to have committed a crime like this. But my writer mind started like imagining the set up and imagining all these characters or suspects emerging, and that was just totally what got me going. And like I said, you know, other than that opening scene, the story, the, you know, the Keddie cabin murders and it's not her are completely different.

00;15;05;26 - 00;15;19;28
Unknown
The characters are different. What happens is different. The Keddie cabin murders are still unsolved today. No one has ever been arrested for those murders. But you will find out who the murderer is, and it's not her.

00;15;20;01 - 00;15;48;17
Unknown
I do want to touch on the the ending, because without spoiling it, obviously, but that once the case is resolved and then there's a little more. That's what got me. I did not see that one coming. So did you know that twist at the very, very end was going to happen before you got to it? Or was that something that came up?

00;15;48;19 - 00;16;09;18
Unknown
Yeah, earlier in the process? Yeah. So it's always so hard to talk about twists without, you know, giving anything away. But ironically, that part of it came to me before, like the other twist. So, I wasn't sure how it was all going to happen, but that had come to me earlier, and I just wasn't sure how I was going to work it in.

00;16;09;20 - 00;16;28;11
Unknown
One thing I will say, because suspense writers are so smart and like they are looking for trying to solve these crimes from page two. And, you know, so one thing as an author, kind of one trick that I do employ is to have more than one twist, even if they're smaller twists, or just, you know, things for the reader to find out.

00;16;28;11 - 00;16;45;22
Unknown
Because that way I feel like if you do, you know, like you said, you were able to figure out the twist, but like, this got you. So there's still some like, you know, I hope that regardless, you enjoy the ride, even if you do figure things out. But this way, if you figure out part of the twist, there's still something that will surprise you.

00;16;45;28 - 00;17;01;05
Unknown
I was like sitting at Easter or something like that because it was like a one week deadline to read this and send the reviews. I was like reading at Easter or some other family gathering, and like it was getting to that and I was like, oh, my husband's like, are you okay? There's like, I had it. And then I did not see this.

00;17;01;08 - 00;17;25;04
Unknown
And he's like, oh, somebody's got you for once. I'm on Earth. Okay. Not quite as, like, Sharp Objects was one that really got me. And I chucked the book like, I had it figured out. And then you flipped it on me. How did I. It also from Chicago. So there must be something in the water. Yeah, yeah, I had, like, a total fangirl.

00;17;25;04 - 00;17;41;06
Unknown
One moment, one time. This was years ago. I was doing, murder and mayhem. It's a Chicago area mystery writer's, festival that Larry Raider Day puts on. And I had never met Gillian Flynn. And, she was like, in the green room. And I was coming back for my panel, and she was sitting there and I.

00;17;41;10 - 00;17;43;26
Unknown
I had a very fangirl moment.

00;17;43;29 - 00;17;50;19
Unknown
As one does, I have never fangirl so hard over someone as I did over her. So.

00;17;50;21 - 00;18;05;24
Unknown
But she did just have a little fun little thing in Publishers Weekly about the making of the book. And you touched a little bit earlier on the like, how many other people are involved? So what was it like getting to see the people who have helped make this book be kind of honored in that way? And Publishers Weekly,

00;18;05;28 - 00;18;15;23
Unknown
I loved that I was so glad that they got that recognition, because, I mean, there's just so many people, so many people, you know, even more than than the three of them that were featured in that Publishers Weekly page.

00;18;15;25 - 00;18;36;09
Unknown
But, like, I had a call yesterday with my sales marketing publicity team and, you know, I'm just like looking at all these wonderful faces on zoom and just everybody that, you know, is just so enthusiastic about this book. And they're they're fighting for this book. You know, from just getting, you know, different like publicity in the media to, like, pick it up and to get, you know, different book bookstores to carry it.

00;18;36;09 - 00;18;54;08
Unknown
And so like, take a good amount of books and just you know, all those things. I mean, there are so many people involved in this process. And for me, you know, I turned in this book and finished my edits, like over a year ago, you know? So then I sort of just, like, hands it off and, and they, like, take the reins from there.

00;18;54;08 - 00;19;12;28
Unknown
And it's just, it's just amazing to see, you know, all that, all that buzz that builds on social media. That's because of them, because they're getting the book out. They're getting the book out to people like you to read it and endorse it and, you know, talk about it. And, so I, I love that they were able to get some recognition because I don't think that, you know, they don't they don't get that visibility.

00;19;12;28 - 00;19;33;00
Unknown
A lot of people don't know just how many people are working really hard behind the scenes. And, the art department, you know, Sean, captain, he's done his all of my book covers, and they're just they're just beautiful. Like the way that he is able to, like, make these, like, mesmerizing images that just, like, nail the mood, the vibe, all of it, of the book.

00;19;33;00 - 00;19;47;02
Unknown
And it's like one image. It's just it amazes me. And, you know, they say, don't judge a book by its cover. But like, you know as well as I do the whether it's, you know, on social media or you walk into a store and like lay your eyes on a book, it matters. So I'm just I'm so grateful for all of them.

00;19;47;07 - 00;19;56;12
Unknown
on your website. There's some book club questions for all of your books. What part of the process are you involved in all of that creation?

00;19;56;18 - 00;20;03;13
Unknown
Yeah. So that's usually and that's a reminder that I need to get some book club questions for. It's not hurt because they're not there yet.

00;20;03;16 - 00;20;29;05
Unknown
My editor and I usually just kind of bounce some ideas back and forth. It's always fun having written the book to then, you know, and I've been in a book club before to then think like, what are the what are the things that would make great conversations among book club members? And a lot of it, it often, you know, is based on conversations that my editor and I had, like during the revision process, you know, just whether it's about the characters or plot or twists or whatever.

00;20;29;08 - 00;20;40;08
Unknown
So, you know, she is one of us usually, like, we'll draft a couple questions, share them, you know, with the other, and we'll just sort of bounce ideas back and forth. So it's cool to be able to sort of like think of the book from the other side.

00;20;40;10 - 00;20;43;11
Unknown
What's your favorite kind of book club question to see?

00;20;43;15 - 00;21;00;13
Unknown
I just like I love the questions that really make people like debate, like, what would you do? Because, you know, I think God, like none of us have been and not none of us, but most of us have not been in situations like happen in my books. So I feel like you just, you know, you were asking before about Courtney.

00;21;00;13 - 00;21;23;21
Unknown
You know what I do what Courtney is doing. And, you know, I think, well, not to the same extent, but like, I don't know, I've never been in this situation, you know, where I'm, like, trying to avoid a killer and desperate to protect my family. So I don't I don't know what I would do, you know, I kind of like, imagine myself cowering behind a locked door, but I don't know, maybe, like, maybe I would be able to, like, dig deep and do some of the things that Courtney does.

00;21;23;21 - 00;21;28;08
Unknown
So those are my favorite is just to kind of like, imagine, what would you do?

00;21;28;11 - 00;21;44;17
Unknown
And one thing I've noticed online that you're having to deal with right now is that there are scammers posing as you and emailing people. So I'm going to give you an opportunity to for someone who might not be following you on Instagram and see your post that may have gotten an email from you.

00;21;44;19 - 00;21;49;04
Unknown
So a little bit about what it's like having someone poses you as the best. Everything.

00;21;49;04 - 00;21;59;15
Unknown
like, I think my first thought, because I know that these scammers and I don't even know what it is I like, I don't know what it is. And a lot of people are forwarding me these emails, so they're not even just for one email address.

00;21;59;15 - 00;22;29;15
Unknown
Because if that was the case, might be a little bit easier. But I've reported all of these and so far nothing has been taken down. My first instinct is honestly sad because they are praying mostly on aspiring or new authors and the language in these. I mean, if I had been, you know, an aspiring or new author and I received an email like that, I just would have been over the moon, you know, to just have like a published author reaching out to me and offering feedback about my book and they're like, I know.

00;22;29;17 - 00;22;50;23
Unknown
They're just like, so over the top in their feedback. And I mean, and so it makes me sad that they are preying on a newer authors like this. And, but it's, you know, of course it makes me mad and frustrated too, that they're using my name to do this. And from what I'm reading, like, I don't know what they're you know, I'm assuming that after a number of emails, they're going to they're asking for money for something.

00;22;50;23 - 00;23;15;02
Unknown
You know, I'm not exactly sure. Like what their goal, what the goal is here, I don't know. But if you're getting an email from me, it's not for me. I mean, I barely respond to like, my own loved ones emails. But one, I mean, I, I'm grateful for the people that have reached out. I'm so glad that people are like, checking to make sure before they respond to, before they get too far into these conversations to make sure that they are legit.

00;23;15;04 - 00;23;30;26
Unknown
But I do have an email address, and some authors probably do like on my website. And if I ever was to be sending an email, that's the only place I'd be emailing from. So that's just one. If you wanted to verify if the email address is even the same as my email address, that's one thing that you can do.

00;23;30;26 - 00;23;44;25
Unknown
But if you do get an email, this is what my publisher said to do that. And the email itself, they're like three little dots on the right side. You can click on that and then report it as spam or phishing, something like that. And hopefully one day eventually these get taken down.

00;23;44;27 - 00;23;47;14
Unknown
It's kind of like, oh, it's like this is terrible and horrible.

00;23;47;14 - 00;24;03;25
Unknown
This is happening. But it's also kind of like a well, I guess you kind of made it moment that they're picking you. I don't know, somebody pointed that out. They were like, well, you know, it's kind of an honor if they're picking you to be. And I was like, but also this is terrible, right? Right. Yeah. No, it totally truly.

00;24;03;25 - 00;24;07;06
Unknown
And I just, I don't know, I wish it would go away.

00;24;07;09 - 00;24;23;17
Unknown
Switching gears, I do want to talk a little bit about your film adaptations, because over the years there have been like headlines of these. But this book is being turned into this or, one that people ask about, we're asking about for a while was, the other misses because it had that Netflix sticker on it right away.

00;24;23;20 - 00;24;28;19
Unknown
So where are you in the process with all of these adaptations? Yeah. So unfortunately,

00;24;28;19 - 00;24;39;20
Unknown
they will, option a book for film and usually they'll have it for, like 18 months. They can renew that option if they haven't made anything in that time or aren't making progress or whatever, but are still interested in it.

00;24;39;23 - 00;24;56;24
Unknown
And then after a certain amount of time, you know, if if they're not going to do anything with it, then the rights come back to the author. So I've had, three books optioned. The Good Girl was optioned a couple times. The other Mrs. was options and that and like you said, that was by Netflix and they have the Netflix sticker and that was moving forward.

00;24;56;24 - 00;25;15;07
Unknown
It had a screenwriter attached to it. I was, I was I was so optimistic about that. It seemed like everything was moving in the right direction. But it was also right around the time of Covid. And so it was just unfortunately, bad timing. And then local and missing was also options. But unfortunately, the rights for all three have come back to me.

00;25;15;07 - 00;25;39;26
Unknown
So I do have some incredible, film agents that are still there trying to sell those. They're trying to sell. It's not hers. So I'm I'm hoping it would be an absolute dream to see any of my books, you know, made up into either a big screen or for TV. And you're seeing it happen. I mean, like, look at me, Cobb, in The Hunting Wives, like, it's happening, or Alice Feeney and His and hers, which just came out and, so that that would be really amazing to see something made one day.

00;25;39;26 - 00;25;40;27
Unknown
So fingers crossed.

00;25;41;04 - 00;25;59;29
Unknown
It's always so hard when those initial announcements come out because, like, you have such high hopes, but then you know the reality of how many actually make it to the finish line, right? So hard. Especially like we had Covid and then we followed that right up with the strikes. And that really threw a lot of adaptations off as well.

00;26;00;05 - 00;26;21;26
Unknown
It really it really did. And you know, it's it's sad and I know I get excited. I know readers get excited, you know, and I've, you know, gone through this enough now that I, like, kind of figured out, you know, the process. And I think everybody goes into it with really good intentions. But then there are just so many moving pieces, you know, to find a screenwriter and talent and just all the different pieces.

00;26;21;26 - 00;26;30;26
Unknown
And then sometimes it's like, I'm so far along, but then you can't get a network to pick it up. So there are just so many things that really have to go in the right direction for it to happen.

00;26;31;02 - 00;26;39;00
Unknown
It's true. I mean, we're just starting to see movement on, It Happened One Summer by Tessa Bailey, and that was like optioned like four years ago.

00;26;39;00 - 00;27;05;04
Unknown
So it's a whole long process. I sure as, a shorter term process, the project that I've heard that you do is fostering kitties. I do I don't have any right now. I, I just I love it I've been fostering, you know, I, I volunteer at a shelter and I been there for a long, long time. But then when Covid hit, that was when I really started fostering a lot.

00;27;05;04 - 00;27;21;21
Unknown
You know, they needed, they they weren't able, you know, just everything was changing, you know, they couldn't get volunteers into the shelter. And even though they were still singing animals, they were trying to get as many into homes as they could. So they were just sitting at the shelter. And so I started fostering a lot and, just loved it.

00;27;21;21 - 00;27;41;08
Unknown
I mean, you know, it's like almost so fun. It doesn't really feel like I'm doing a good thing, you know? I feel like I'm the one that is really, like, benefiting from it, but it's just it's it's it really is so rewarding. Like, I love especially like some of my favorites are will get like like semi feral kittens that are still young enough that they can become super friendly.

00;27;41;11 - 00;27;56;11
Unknown
But the first time you meet them, they were like terrified of people. You can tell that they've had very little human contact and just to like, convince them that we're okay and like that first time like a semi feral cat and actually sits on your lap and it's just like awkward. And it's clearly never sat on a human's lap.

00;27;56;14 - 00;27;58;12
Unknown
That's that's the really rewarding stuff

00;27;58;19 - 00;28;06;03
Unknown
as a cat ever. Helps inspire a plot point in a book or potentially show up in one.

00;28;06;06 - 00;28;16;07
Unknown
they have not, but they should. I'm going to need to work a cat, and they mostly just like, take me away from my work because every time I'm like, foolish enough to think I'm gonna bring my laptop in and get some work done.

00;28;16;07 - 00;28;21;00
Unknown
And, you know, the room with the kittens, they're like, in my lap, in my face, on the keyboard.

00;28;21;03 - 00;28;29;24
Unknown
And in your past, you a history teacher, correct? Yes. So what did you learn from teaching history that has helped you write novels?

00;28;29;28 - 00;28;37;07
Unknown
You know, I think mostly just like observing humans especially. I taught high school. So especially like younger ish people, teens.

00;28;37;07 - 00;28;56;19
Unknown
And just, you know, that's one of the things that as a writer, like, if people ask her advice, I'm always just, you know, in addition to the writing stuff. But I'm always saying, just like observe your surroundings, observe people the way they act, the things that they say to each other and just sort of like store that, you know, because that's it's just so important to creating like good realistic characters.

00;28;56;22 - 00;29;11;22
Unknown
So, so I learned that I do always say people ask, you know, if I could ever try writing in a different genre, what would it be? And I do a lot of history. So maybe historical fiction. I think right now I think I'm having way too much fun writing suspense. So that might be, you know, a future me task.

00;29;11;22 - 00;29;14;20
Unknown
But I do think that it would be a cool thing to try ones

00;29;14;27 - 00;29;21;21
Unknown
historical suspense, historical murder. It's just combine them so.

00;29;21;23 - 00;29;26;28
Unknown
If you were to write a historical suspense, what time period would you be most interested in writing with?

00;29;27;02 - 00;29;40;27
Unknown
You know, I mean, I'm honestly like I'm fascinated with World War Two. I know that there are so many World War Two books that are that are out there. But like you said, if I could, if I could find, you know, that kind of like unheard of, you know, suspense, murder type thing, you know, from World War Two.

00;29;40;27 - 00;29;42;18
Unknown
That would be really, really neat to include.

00;29;42;25 - 00;29;50;25
Unknown
World War two is also my favorite historical time period. So I get it. There's so many out there, but they're so good, right? And like, I never get tired of them.

00;29;50;28 - 00;29;56;20
Unknown
Well, the last question we always ask, because this is literary hype. What books are you hyped about right now?

00;29;56;22 - 00;30;15;02
Unknown
Oh my gosh. Okay. I am so so so looking forward to Alice Feeney's, which I, my husband's wife and I think that's what's called I'm so bad with titles like I can see the cover, but I'm, I'm struggling now, but I'm that comes out, I want to say just next week and I have it on preorder and that is coming on book tour with me.

00;30;15;04 - 00;30;31;23
Unknown
I've also recently read on Laura Dave's newest, which was incredible. That just came out a couple weeks ago. Ashley Austin's latest came out just a couple of weeks ago, or just maybe even this past week. I absolutely loved it. Anatomy of an alibi. Coming the same day as mine. Wendy Walker has a new one out.

00;30;31;23 - 00;30;55;12
Unknown
So it's February 3rd. Wendy Walker. Blade. Carol Ruda has a new one coming out, which is right now on my nightstand. I'm in the process of reading it, and, and the title escapes me, but it's a pink cover and it's lush and it's so good. And then also, Marissa Walls is a debut author, coming out with her first book called Good Intentions, and I had the opportunity to blurb that, and it was incredible.

00;30;55;12 - 00;30;58;19
Unknown
So February 3rd is going to be a good day for books.

00;30;58;21 - 00;31;19;10
Unknown
am so excited for all these books coming out. It's a good 2026 is bringing in some great reads. Oh my gosh, so much. So many. Like I'm going to be my my TBR is going to explode this year. Clearly mine has. Well, thanks so much for taking time to talk to literary hype all about it's not her

00;31;19;13 - 00;31;20;21
Unknown
and thank you for having me.

00;31;20;25 - 00;31;22;12
Unknown
think that you've done a phenomenal job here.

00;31;22;12 - 00;31;26;26
Unknown
Thank you so much for all these thoughtful questions.

00;31;26;29 - 00;31;38;29
Unknown
Thanks to Mary for hanging out with me to talk all about her brand new novel, It's Not Her. If you'd like to check out this book for yourself, the links to do so are down in the show notes for you, as well as where to find Mary on social media.

00;31;39;02 - 00;31;51;22
Unknown
and I want your take on one of the questions, I just ask Mary. So if you were in Courtney shoes and found your brother and sister in law were murdered and your niece is missing, would you leave it up to the cops to find what happened?

00;31;51;22 - 00;31;59;01
Unknown
Or would you be sneaking around town, trying to figure it out for yourself? Drop a comment and let me know where you would stand on this one.

00;31;59;04 - 00;32;09;12
Unknown
If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to subscribe to the Literary Hype Podcast. Give us some stars and drop a comment with your favorite part. Thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Literary Hype Podcast.